Just got a Pionier 520 Z frame & Sail kit

Moderators: mje, chrstjrn, krudave

User avatar
GrnMtns
forum fanatic
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 10:27 pm
Location: Northern Vermont,USA

Just got a Pionier 520 Z frame & Sail kit

Post by GrnMtns »

My first look at a Poineer
My first look at a Poineer
pioneer1.jpg (50.87 KiB) Viewed 598 times
I must say that it looks great. Thanks to this forum I was able to find out a little about them.
It is missing a rudder head and of course the skin is long gone with the rudder/cap castings.
More to follow if I find a hull worth using to get it back on the water!
Attachments
Hull bag and label
Hull bag and label
pioneer2.jpg (56.93 KiB) Viewed 598 times
Deck and foot pedals
Deck and foot pedals
pioneer3.jpg (105.51 KiB) Viewed 598 times
Last edited by GrnMtns on Wed May 18, 2016 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Best,
Jon

Klepper A II
Pionier 520 Z
Klepper A 1

john allsop
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
Posts: 1221
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Location: isles of scilly UK

Re: Just got a Pioneer 520 Z frame & Sail kit

Post by john allsop »

If you have enough of the frame i would like to see it assembled. For a skin, it will be almost impossible to find one, maybe in Europe. But you could probably have a new one made. The name that comes to mind is WAYLAND and although there is quite a lot of complaints about the company many seem quite happy with their products. The Wayland dealer in the UK seems to have info, so it is worth looking at their web site.

RainerM
forum fanatic
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:36 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Just got a Pioneer 520 Z frame & Sail kit

Post by RainerM »

1. The name of the company is Pionier, not Pioneer!
2. You need "cap castings" like this:
http://www.patcool.de/pionier-520/pioni ... -2346.html
3. Also you need "Tothölzer" sitting in the hull and are screwed to the fittings:
http://www.patcool.de/pionier-520/pioni ... -2350.html
4. You can get the best replacement hulls here:
http://www.heise-faltboote.de
5. More informations are availible here:
http://typen.faltboot.org/f2103_var.php?ID=1006
http://www.faltbootbasteln.de/fbb-pioni ... boote.html

R.

User avatar
GrnMtns
forum fanatic
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 10:27 pm
Location: Northern Vermont,USA

Re: Just got a Pionier 520 Z frame & Sail kit

Post by GrnMtns »

Wow. I did not expect so much info. I have a Godson in Hamburg and we hope visit this summer.Maybe I should pack an extra suit case for a new hull.
These are well built frames and the sail rig looks complete and quite usable as is. Thank you RanierM for the references!
Best,
Jon
Best,
Jon

Klepper A II
Pionier 520 Z
Klepper A 1

User avatar
chrstjrn
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
Posts: 1718
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)

Re: Just got a Pionier 520 Z frame & Sail kit

Post by chrstjrn »

"like" button for Rainer :-)
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.

RainerM
forum fanatic
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:36 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Just got a Pionier 520 Z frame & Sail kit

Post by RainerM »

Same more informations about Pionier:
nice movies on youtube:

6. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSMpApOMCrc
7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMU5rNceiMA

Only in German, use "google translate":

8. http://www.merkur.de/lokales/bad-toelz/ ... 78295.html
9. http://www.merkur.de/lokales/bad-toelz/ ... 74796.html
10. a few impressions of the exhibition "90 years Pionier" in 2015:

R.
Attachments
P2.jpg
P2.jpg (88.59 KiB) Viewed 570 times
P1.jpg
P1.jpg (62.45 KiB) Viewed 570 times
P4.jpg
P4.jpg (68.24 KiB) Viewed 570 times

RainerM
forum fanatic
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:36 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Just got a Pionier 520 Z frame & Sail kit

Post by RainerM »

13. rudder head
12. "RainerM" on the river Isar in Bavaria in a Pionier 450W (W = Whitewater). On the river Isar, Alfred Heurich - the inventor of folding kayaks- undertook his first trip in May 1905).
11. Klepper SL53 (with skin, only frame)

The same modell (Pionier 450W) was used by Theo Bock an the Arkansas River Race in 1953 -> 2nd Winner.
Race winner was Erich Seidel in Klepper Slalom 53...

R.
Attachments
K53.jpg
K53.jpg (107.48 KiB) Viewed 570 times
P6.jpg
P6.jpg (89.65 KiB) Viewed 570 times
P5.jpg
P5.jpg (70.58 KiB) Viewed 570 times

User avatar
GrnMtns
forum fanatic
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 10:27 pm
Location: Northern Vermont,USA

Re: Just got a Pionier 520 Z frame & Sail kit

Post by GrnMtns »

Hi R,
I enjoyed the videos and the new pics. Looking at the frames here & the two hefty paddlers in the video I would assume the 520 Z is rather low volume (compared to a Klepper A2), abit tender and a fast boat to paddle. Would you care to comment on how it handles?
I have two lee Boards
I have two lee Boards
PionierSwordplant.jpg (69.55 KiB) Viewed 568 times
I appear to be missing only the rudder bar for steering and the lee board "swordplant" Good translation by google :~)?
Sailing rudder and seat backs
Sailing rudder and seat backs
pionier4.jpg (35.41 KiB) Viewed 568 times
Thanks You!
Best,
Jon
Best,
Jon

Klepper A II
Pionier 520 Z
Klepper A 1

User avatar
GrnMtns
forum fanatic
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 10:27 pm
Location: Northern Vermont,USA

Re: Just got a Pioneer 520 Z frame & Sail kit

Post by GrnMtns »

john allsop wrote:If you have enough of the frame i would like to see it assembled. For a skin, it will be almost impossible to find one, maybe in Europe. But you could probably have a new one made. The name that comes to mind is WAYLAND and although there is quite a lot of complaints about the company many seem quite happy with their products. The Wayland dealer in the UK seems to have info, so it is worth looking at their web site.
Hi John,
I hope to assemble the frame next week after I make a couple repairs and will post the results!
Best,
Jon
Best,
Jon

Klepper A II
Pionier 520 Z
Klepper A 1

RainerM
forum fanatic
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:36 pm
Location: Germany

Re: Just got a Pionier 520 Z frame & Sail kit

Post by RainerM »

Hi Jon,

the Aerius double is heavy and lame. In my opinion, a failed construction, only good for sailing. There are very many better two-seater folding boats than an Aerius.
The Pionier 520Z is light in weight, the seating position is much better and the boat is fast to paddle.
The ease of assembly of Aerius is unsurpassed.

The yellow/blue Pionier folder in the video is a prewar "Z35" from ~ 1935.

520Z: 5,20m x 0,80m (in inches ??)
Z35: 5,20m x 0,75m !!

Rainer

"... leeboards crossbar ..." ?? !!

User avatar
GrnMtns
forum fanatic
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 10:27 pm
Location: Northern Vermont,USA

Re: Just got a Pionier 520 Z frame & Sail kit

Post by GrnMtns »

RainerM wrote:Hi Jon,

the Aerius double is heavy and lame. In my opinion, a failed construction, only good for sailing. There are very many better two-seater folding boats than an Aerius.
The Pionier 520Z is light in weight, the seating position is much better and the boat is fast to paddle.
The ease of assembly of Aerius is unsurpassed.

The yellow/blue Pionier folder in the video is a prewar "Z35" from ~ 1935.

520Z: 5,20m x 0,80m (in inches ??)
Z35: 5,20m x 0,75m !!

Rainer

"... leeboards crossbar ..." ?? !!

Hi Rainer,
Excellent looks like the extra width should make the difference. I have yet to attempt a 530Z assembly and am prepared to find it challenging!
We have a Folbot Greenland 2 so we are used to long slow paddles but great sailing.(although @ 62# it works OK)

I have Balogh Sail components and may modify a cross tube so I can use their 120 cm lee board if I get a hull for the 520Z
Best,
Jon

Klepper A II
Pionier 520 Z
Klepper A 1

User avatar
GrnMtns
forum fanatic
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 10:27 pm
Location: Northern Vermont,USA

Re: Just got a Pioneer 520 Z frame & Sail kit

Post by GrnMtns »

john allsop wrote:If you have enough of the frame i would like to see it assembled. For a skin, it will be almost impossible to find one, maybe in Europe. But you could probably have a new one made. The name that comes to mind is WAYLAND and although there is quite a lot of complaints about the company many seem quite happy with their products. The Wayland dealer in the UK seems to have info, so it is worth looking at their web site.
I just got a chance to figure out where everything goes.
DSCN4845.JPG
DSCN4845.JPG (115.65 KiB) Viewed 539 times
Attachments
DSCN4871.JPG
DSCN4871.JPG (67.85 KiB) Viewed 539 times
Can't wait to get it on the water
Can't wait to get it on the water
DSCN4869.JPG (122.59 KiB) Viewed 539 times
Best,
Jon

Klepper A II
Pionier 520 Z
Klepper A 1

User avatar
chrstjrn
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
Posts: 1718
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)

Re: Just got a Pionier 520 Z frame & Sail kit

Post by chrstjrn »

A Gunther-yawl? That is a very cool rig.
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.

DLee
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
Posts: 1439
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Location: South Salem, NY
Contact:

Re: Just got a Pionier 520 Z frame & Sail kit

Post by DLee »

Wow, that's awesome. I love that mizzen!

The Balogh rigs are fantastic, but you cannot beat the classic lines of the old sail rigs. That's gorgeous.

It has a beautiful lee board assembly as well, very nice design.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

User avatar
GrnMtns
forum fanatic
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu May 05, 2016 10:27 pm
Location: Northern Vermont,USA

Re: Just got a Pionier 520 Z frame & Sail kit

Post by GrnMtns »

We went ahead and ordered a blue hull from Markus Heise and will be picking it up in July.
I have the Lee Boards and hope to find a used  cross piece for it.
I have the Lee Boards and hope to find a used cross piece for it.
PionierSwordplant.jpg (69.55 KiB) Viewed 521 times



With any luck we will be sailing in August. I have a small group of kayak sailors getting together for the third year in the Rangley Lakes region Aug 1-10 at the Cupsuptic Campground. All are welcome. The lakes offer some of the best sailing anywhere in New England. PM me for more details.
One of many sandy beaches on Cupsuptic Lake
One of many sandy beaches on Cupsuptic Lake
cupsuptic1.jpg (106.97 KiB) Viewed 521 times
Best,
Jon

Klepper A II
Pionier 520 Z
Klepper A 1

Post Reply

Return to “Other boats”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users