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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:55 pm 
paddler

Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:17 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Queenstown New Zealand
Have been a keen sea kayaker most of my life. Mostly hardshell kayaks, some outside coast of Fiordland, Stewart Island, Vancouver Island and north of there... Sometime sea kayak guide.

Built my own carbon stringer single folder, have built a couple of other SOF non folding kayaks.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4ud0b6efcbg43 ... u.jpg?dl=0

Now a family man, three kids, 7, 10, 11. Kids and I have done some pretty hard core tramping / hiking and enjoyed it.

Thinking about a big Klepper Aerius Expedition XXL 585 so I and the kids can get out on some water expeditions.

Would love to hear any comments folks have regarding:

Dealing with Klepper, arranging international freight through them.

Suitability of this boat for what I have in mind, any other options /other manufacturers worth looking at.

The only other kayak in this size I can see is the Wayland AMAZON II 600 XXL Expedition, but a quick look through this forum seems pretty negative about it / dealing with Wayland.

Plan at the moment is to get started this winter on saving money and also on building a big (6.5m) non folding SOF kayak and hopefully get out next summer locally and see if it's something that works well for me and the kids before deciding whether to go the big folding kayak route.

Thanks in advance for any comments.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 8:54 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Posts: 794
Location: atlanta, georgia
Ian,

Not sure what state the Klepper production line in Poland is at this point, but my suggestion is to deal with KlepperAmerica, Gerald Grace is the proprieter, to get a sense on the what it would take to get one of the 585s stateside. Gerald is a solid guy, although I notice that his site has not been updated in over a year. Otherwise I would be very, very circumspect about dealing directly with Wayland, as their service...or lack thereof...is pretty well documented on this forum. Best of luck,

g

_________________
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1990's A1 Expedition
2010 Klepper Quattro
Kayaksailer
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor
(sold) 1969 AEII, S2; Kahuna; '80s Klondike; 2005 Java


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:00 pm 
paddler

Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:17 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Queenstown New Zealand
Thanks, yes Wayland looks suspect at the moment. I'm in Queenstown New Zealand, so probably better to deal directly with Klepper in Germany than to go through a US agent. I've had some success dealing directly with Klepper in Germany, it looks like it will be possible to get a boat imported to NZ direct from them.

Any thoughts on current quality of these big Kleppers, Kleppers have a good reputation but are now being made by Wayland in Poland? Have bought other gear (Down Jacket, sleeping bags direct from a Polish manufacturer - Cumulus.pl) and had only good experiences from them - quality gear, good price)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:32 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 600
Location: Colombo, Sri Lanka
Slightly smaller but with a good reputation and much cheaper are the Pouch RZ 85 and 96:http://pakboats.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=86&Itemid=147

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Simon

Pakboats Quest 135, Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), First light 420, Feathercraft Wisper, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (for sale)
Non-folders: Cape Falcon F1. Beth sailing canoe, 2014 Hobie Adventure Island


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 1:19 am 
paddler

Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:17 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Queenstown New Zealand
Thanks, Simon, the Pouch RZ 96 looks like a possibility. Perhaps a little smaller, but EUR 1000 cheaper.

Would probably try to deal with the German manufacturer directly.

http://www.poucher-faltboot.de/en/produ ... boot/rz-96


Saw a couple of these Pouch Doubles in action when I was kayaking in Eastern Germany - Mecklenburger Seenplatte a while ago, they seemed to work well.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:49 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
If you are looking at the Pouch, you might as well look at Long Haul.

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Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:45 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:42 pm
Posts: 408
And if you are the handy sort of person who has already built your own skin-on-frame kayaks and therefore knows what is involved, then you could also consider buying a second hand folding frame with a spent skin at a fifth of the cost of a new kayak and reskinning it yourself (or getting Marcus Heise to do it for you). That would overcome any concerns about decline in the quality of production of Kleppers, not that I have any actual experience of that. But I *am* very impressed with the quality of the two 1960s Klepper frames that I have, and I found the reskinning of an old Tyne folder a satisfying project.

I also have a Wayland kayak that I acquired secondhand, and a Klepper Aerius II with a replacement Wayland skin. Wayland have some merits. The frame is not a patch on the quality of the old Kleppers I have. The skins seem OK to me as cheap replacements (no doubt Marcus Heise is a higher end option), though if you search around the forum here you will see at least one customer who was very concerned about allergies (!?) in relation to a Wayland boat.

Just a thought. (Another thought would be that if you can afford a new folder, then the folding kayak manufacturers sound as though they could do with your custom at present ... the industry seems to be going through some hard times.)
Ian


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2017 5:58 pm 
paddler

Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:17 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Queenstown New Zealand
Thanks for the thoughts. Yes, I am still thinking, tossing up between buying new / second hand or building from scratch.

Working a couple of hours extra a week and putting money aside for a new boat over the next year is a possibility.

As far as getting me and three kids on multi day trips a Klepper 585 seems to be the only option that is big enough. I can't see the dimensions of the biggest Long Haul kayak, but in any case at a bit over US$5000 they're pricier than a Klepper 585 I think.

I would consider a second hand boat or frame and reconstruction, but all that seems to be available are the standard length Aerius IIs and similar which would be a bit small.

Plan at the moment is to build another folding single myself over this winter, try out the construction techniques I have been thinking about for a while and would I think transfer to making a really big double that way. Build a big (6.5 m) wooden framed SOF non folder in the spring, hopefully get it on the water for the summer and see how that goes with the kids. Based on that building and on water experience decide whether to have a go at building a perhaps 5.8 - 6.0 m double from scratch myself or buy a big folder.

I can build a big non folding double pretty quickly and cheaply, problem is doing it in the winter as I don't have enough heated work space. I should be able to get a single folder together in the winter as the few bits that need to be glued together are smaller and can be kept warm enough in a smaller space.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:54 am 
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1681
Location: Southeast Michigan
Another option is a DIY Baidarka of the sort George Dyson has popularized:

http://gdyson.com/a-builders-journal/

http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/Buildin ... anual.html

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Michael Edelman
FoldingKayaks.org Webmaster


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:14 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Posts: 794
Location: atlanta, georgia
Great links for Baidarka's Mike, thanks for that. Elegant construction and beautiful boats, makes me think seriously about DIY. But space looks like a constraint, unless maybe my wife wants to park her car in the driveway for a while. I'll ask :-)

Ian, I have to wonder if even a 585 is enough for 4 people, especially if you plan on multi-day tripping. It would seem to me that even with minimalist camping you will have a very tight fit. Have you considered two smaller kayaks? You could get a pair of used 520s for less than half the price of a new 585 and be much more comfortable if your older kids could handle it. Just a suggestion.

Best,
g

_________________
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1990's A1 Expedition
2010 Klepper Quattro
Kayaksailer
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor
(sold) 1969 AEII, S2; Kahuna; '80s Klondike; 2005 Java


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:09 pm 
forum fanatic

Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:10 pm
Posts: 47
Similar in size to the Klepper is the largest Triton http://www.out-trade.de/de/index.php?ca ... uct=101123 The Triton is made in St Petersburg in a special version for the German importer Out-Trade GmbH. I think the build quality is quite good. Like the Klepper, you would need to import the Triton from Germany.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 5:01 am 
paddler

Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2017 5:17 pm
Posts: 9
Location: Queenstown New Zealand
Thanks for the link, the Triton Vuoksa III advanced looks like a good possibility: Big enough, 5 kg lighter than the Klepper 585 and at least a thousand euro cheaper as far as i can see. Any pointers to reviews / anyone with personal experience of these boats?


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