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 Post subject: folding canoes?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:32 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:06 am
Posts: 105
Location: vienna/austria/europe
is this also a topic in this forum?

i like this forum. but i have to change from kayak to canoe. but i will stay to folders

br hannes


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 Post subject: Re: folding canoes?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:18 pm 
forum fanatic

Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2017 3:08 pm
Posts: 78
I'm interested. What do you paddle?


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 Post subject: Re: folding canoes?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:18 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:06 am
Posts: 105
Location: vienna/austria/europe
hi

i had a klepper t9(>>> klepper >> my T9)

i can't paddle my beloved t9 due to healthy reasons(vertigo, extrem kneeproblems-no power after > 2 hours sitting in kayakposition).
that was not a problem caused by the t9!!!!!!
that was a problem caused by me fixed in my head.
so i sold my t9.

i can't be without being on the water and so i want to get a canoe.
a folding canoe.
i started a thread under "other boats". maybe there are some other guys who are interessted in folding canoes.

br hannes
from vienna/austria/europe


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 Post subject: Re: folding canoes?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:21 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:57 am
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Location: Anchorage Alaska
I had a Grabner Jumbo inflatable canoe. Did not really like it as it was a lot to paddle solo

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 Post subject: Re: folding canoes?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 12:05 am 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 8:06 am
Posts: 105
Location: vienna/austria/europe
gumotex palava/innova vagabond is a good inflatible canoe on rivers.
but high wind resistance on open water as all inflatibles :(


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 Post subject: Re: folding canoes?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:47 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:42 pm
Posts: 412
I have the Ally folding canoe 160DR. It is a pain in the backside to assemble (takes me around an hour as opposed to 20 minutes for my klepper t9), but once assembled is reasonably stiff, carries a ton of baggage, and paddles very like a normal canoe. I like paddling it. I just don't like assembling it. (Disassembling is much easier.) It is lovely and light for portaging, though I wouldn't portage it while loaded for fear of bending the aluminium rods.
I have also had a go at constructing and paddling my brother's Pak canoe (a 150 I think). This was easier to build than the Ally and I liked the inflatable sides and the adjustable bench seats. It still took a lot longer to put together than the Klepper though.


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 Post subject: Re: folding canoes?
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 9:59 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:46 am
Posts: 451
Location: inland Pennsylvania, USA
Pakboat Pakcanoes. They have several models and though I have never actually set one up myself, I have had 4 Pakboat kayak models and understand they used a similar frame set up for XT models and that was quite easy to set up. Pakcanoes are favored by many hunting and fishing guides for taking trips in bush plains -- we actually bought the XT kayak from a guide who used Pakboat folding canoes for client trips to Alaska and Patagonia, even in rocky streams with moderate whitewater. From what I have heard about them, they perform just as well as a hardshell canoe.

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 Post subject: Re: folding canoes?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 12:48 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:17 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Chicago
I too recommend either an Ally or PakCanoe. Since you're in Europe I think you'll find it easier to find an Ally. I've assembled both and can testify that it's a tough job compared to, say, a Klepper kayak. But both are excellent canoes. A guide I talked to said the Allys are a little stiffer--they don't rely on inflatable sponsons for stiffness--but they're also a little harder to put together. People also say that because of their flexibility a folding canoes won't be as fast on flatwater as a hard shell canoe. I've used a PakCanoe extensively in Alaska and was very impressed with it.


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 Post subject: Re: folding canoes?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:40 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm
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Joined: Fri Sep 25, 2009 10:46 am
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Location: inland Pennsylvania, USA
PakBoats also sells their products in Europe. Thought their headquarters is in New Hampshire, USA, the owner, Alv Elvestad, is from Norway and frequently travels back there. If you call them you can find out about distributors in Europe.

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 Post subject: Re: folding canoes?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:13 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:17 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Chicago
Just back from a trip in the Boundary Waters with a Pakcanoe 165 and an Ally 17 DR. Interesting to paddle the two side by side. The Ally is a little lighter and maybe a little faster, being designed for flat water. But the Pakcanoe is tougher and better built. The Ally seems a little overpriced to me, given the refinements and improvements Pakboat has made to this basic design. As for assembly time, I found them both to be about the same, maybe an hour.


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 Post subject: Re: folding canoes?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:37 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:42 pm
Posts: 412
Overland, thanks for that. Interesting to hear a comparison after paddling both side by side.


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 Post subject: Re: folding canoes?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 3:17 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:17 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Chicago
There's a lot more to say about a comparison between the two boats, and I'd be glad to wax on. The materials used on Pakboats are a little tougher: the PVC is thicker, especially on the bottom, where Pakboats uses an "unbalanced" PVC with the bulk of the coating on the outside. The aluminum tubes on a Pakboat are a little thicker. It's got wear strips at the keel and where the aluminum chines run on the inside (in addition to the foam pad on the floor). It's got a wear strip on top of the gunwales. It's got D rings at the bow and stern. The material used for the "end caps" is a little thicker. Some people don't like the air tubes, and they can be troublesome if they don't stay inflated, but they help protect both the frame and the skin and keep the boat stiff if fully inflated. My Ally is built for flat water and has a pronounced tumblehome. There's an aluminum chine at the widest part of the boat, but no protection for it or the skin at that point--it's above the foam pad. When you rub up against a rock in the Boundary Waters, say, you get a long scratch on the skin where the chin is. I complained to Bergans about this, but good luck getting an answer. That's another thing about Pakboats: it's got excellent customer service. They care about their customers and their boats.


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 Post subject: Re: folding canoes?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:37 pm 
recent arrival

Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:57 am
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Location: Alexandria VA
I have a pakboats 150T. I purchased it 14 years ago, and after 14 years of good hard use it still looks and works great. I have the original pedestal seats and last month or so I purchased one bench seat to try out. I believe this canoe will last a lifetime.


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 Post subject: Re: folding canoes?
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:38 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:17 pm
Posts: 113
Location: Chicago
I'm not surprised. I think these boats will last as long as the skin holds up. According to Pakboats, their earliest boats from the mid-1990s are still going strong. If you use them where there are rocks--on lakes or rivers--they'll get scratched up fast, but that's not really a problem. The aluminum rods get bent up a little, too, but again, that's not a problem. The boat will still go together straight.


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