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 Post subject: Kayaks for Canines
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 7:41 pm 
What foldable is suitable for a paddler and a 65 pound, well-behaved dog?
Most paddling will be in sheltered creeks and coves of the Chesapeake Bay.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:02 pm
Posts: 1035
Location: Astoria, OR
You need a boat with a larger, open cockpit. Almost any folding double would do the job, with the less expensive alternative probably being Folbot's Greenland II. In singles, things are tougher, though Folbot's Edisto could handle a dog and a paddler, depending on how large the human is. The Edisto is open stem to stern, with some alternative spraydecks if you choose to paddle alone.

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Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1844
Location: Southeast Michigan
I think Dave pretty much has it nailed. I'd say go with a double, though I'd concerned by what you consider a "creek"; around here, that can mean 4' wide and 6" deep ;-) Smaller waters need shorter boats, like the Edisto. Some of the Pakboats would probably be suitible as well..

For a big dog, though, I'd go with a wide double- a Folbot, Long Haul, Klepper or perhaps the Nautiraid double, which is the smallest of the commonly available doubles. Depends on what your budget and uses are.


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 Post subject: Kayaks for Canines
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:34 am 
Thank you for responding. The Folbot Yukon was also suggested for this application, what do you think?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 12:35 pm 
If the Folbot Yukon cockpit is similar in length to the Klepper Aerius single cockpit it might not be ideal for longer trips. I paddle with a lab in a Klepper single, which would work fine for shorter paddles if the dog enjoyed being on the water. If the dog doesn't lie down and faces backwards (his favourite position, plus leaning to the side when it gets choppy) it's hard to paddle. I find it depends more on the dog than on the boat, but a larger cockpit certainly makes things easier, even with a well-behaved dog. If your dog is different from mine and just curls up in front of you, the Yukon could be ok.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 1:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1844
Location: Southeast Michigan
The Yukon cockpit is significantly larger, I believe. I'll know better when mine arrives. I suspect, though, that a double is the way to go.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 4:36 pm 
Yukon has cockpit about 10" longer than Longhaul 1 or Klepper 1. In Longhaul 1 or Klepper 1 feet of an average paddler are almost pressed against the rib at the very end of the cockpit. This leaves just 10" for a dog in Yukon :-)... Well, there exist some really small doggies... I would rather go for a double like a GII.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 8:27 pm 
The dog has more than 10" if he sits between your legs. This means you have to modify the rudder pedals, otherwise the dog blocks them.

If you don't take the dog every time I would recommend a single with a large cockpit since singles are much better for paddling alone. But there are some smaller doubles, check out Fujita, Atlatl or the Pouch SZ2005 (or 2004?).


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2005 11:46 pm 
I thought of modifying Klepper-style pedals (in LH single). Not that I need a room for a dog, but I don't like how these pedals block the "cargo access hole" at the fore cockpit rib. Couldn't come with any valuable ideas. Rail pedals like on Feathercrafts or on some Folbot rudders won't work there - no suitable stringers to attach the rails.

There is one quite expensive, but relative narrow double:
http://www.feathercraft.com/klond.php - it has 31" beam, - compare to 34" of Klepper double or Folbot double. It comes with 2 sprayskirts - for solo and double paddling. I have never tried this boat, only knowing generally stiff frames of FC, would assume that this 17'10" ft boat will not be too hard to paddle solo. Wider beam, of course, makes boat more stabile - but 31" is a lot of beam. Another boon is that it's lighter than Klepper (manufacturers are not very consistent in measuring "net weight", or any weight quoted in specs); but it should be lighter than wooden frame / hypalon hull doubles; so it will be easier to propel even with additional weight of the dog. Don't know if there are any reliable data on the wetted waterline length (again, with what load?), but I think that 10" longer hull will slow boat down less than 3" wider beam.

PS: have just checked Fujita "double" AL 2430 - very interesting: http://www.folding-kayaks.com/fujita/fujita.htm . 14 ft length (430 cm) and 29" beam (75 cm), 33 lbs (15 kg), single keelsen tube - doesn't look a hell of a boat to me. For flatwater cruising with a dog - why not... Doesn't have a rudder, but it's not needed on 14 ft boat in protected coves.


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 Post subject: Kayaks for Canines
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 9:03 am 
Your replies are most helpful. Keep them coming. I think a boat that I could take the dog, but also is suitable for paddling solo would be best. I'm obviously new to foldables so any advice is welcome.


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 Post subject: Feathercraft Klondike
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:48 pm 
Since the K is using Seal Skin as hull and deck material, it probably has the toughest material. I base this on my experience with my K1 and Kahuna. The urethane is nearly indestructable.

I washed up on a rough concrete ramp sideways in a strong wind trying to land gently and the boat was pushed inland 4 times before I could get out. Did I say it was a strong wind. :lol: I thought my K1 would have damage but I couldn't even find any scratch marks later. I am a 230 lb paddler and 6'3".

The thing I would be concerned about is dog tonails puncturing the hull. In any case I would get a pad of some sort made of non-absorbing foam 1/4 inch or better to have the dog sit/lay on to insure minimal damage.

Good luck.
:D


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 1:59 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1844
Location: Southeast Michigan
Alm wrote:
I thought of modifying Klepper-style pedals (in LH single). Not that I need a room for a dog, but I don't like how these pedals block the "cargo access hole" at the fore cockpit rib. Couldn't come with any valuable ideas. Rail pedals like on Feathercrafts or on some Folbot rudders won't work there - no suitable stringers to attach the rails....


Check the various rudder and pedal mods listed on the main site- click on the logo at the top of the page if you're not already there- and go to both "Kayak Modifications" page and to Tord's album in the Photo Gallery.

Larry Edwards, the original owner of Baidarka Boats, told me one of his customers rigged rudder pedals that were hinged to the top of a forward rib and hung down from there. They'd easily pivot up and out of the way when you wanted to reach foward. Should be pretty simple to fabricate something with stainless steel hinges and plywood or some other material.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 2:55 pm 
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Location: Astoria, OR
mel wrote:
Since the K is using Seal Skin as hull and deck material, it probably has the toughest material. I base this on my experience with my K1 and Kahuna. The urethane is nearly indestructable.
The thing I would be concerned about is dog toenails puncturing the hull.
:D
Same concern here, one reason for recommending the Yukon, with its hypalon hull. Spacious cockpit can probably handle a docile 65 lb dog forward/between your legs on tame waters, such as you describe.

That Feathercraft material sounds tough as nails, also, and gives a significantly lighter craft, if that is a consideration.

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Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
--
Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 3:28 pm 
mel wrote:
The thing I would be concerned about is dog tonails puncturing the hull. In any case I would get a pad of some sort made of non-absorbing foam 1/4 inch or better to have the dog sit/lay on to insure minimal damage.


Yes, some pad between double keelsen tubes is definitely needed. Easy to install in boats where they have these double tubes, - like Folbots. Most doubles have a double-tube keelsen, Fujita double has a mono-tube (the picture shows the frame for a SINGLE PL430, - go figure), but still this is possible - with 2 separate pieces of foam, left and right of the mono-keelsen. I relly like the dimensions of this Fujita - it is a very small double, must be good for paddling solo. There is also a Fujita dealer in the USA: http://www.foldingcraft.com - website is under reconstruction, no models or prices shown. Some Folbot owners have installed such foam or plywood pads - this adds to assembling/dissembling time, if this is a concern. In Kleppers and LH there is already a plywood plate between two keelsen stringers. Once again about Klepper single (or Yukon) - in both these boats adog (especially a big one) will have to sit between the legs, - not the best option in Klepper, with relatively narrow cockpit.

Mike, - thanks; I've checked rudder pedals modification by Tord - this makes assembling easier, but blocks cargo access hole even more - pedals can not be removed from there (though can be tilted fore with disconnected cables). Besides, - may be it works better on wider AEII, but in narrow AE1/LH1 toes of my #10 shoes are hitting the top of the rib with pedals in this location.

PS: Feathercraft urethane hull is quite "destructible", as I had a chance to proove :-)... Didn't have to prove, of course - it just happened... Must've been some sharp granite debris in shallow river. Otherwise, - yes, this material is very hard.


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 Post subject: Urethane vs Hypalon
PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2005 4:22 pm 
Yes, and if you press a sharp rock against a tight skin, the lbs per sq in is significant. I suspect you can hole a hard shell given the right pressure. I holed a Feathercraft K-light with Hypalon by running full speed over some very pointed rocks. Put 2 3 inch rips in it. Because I had my spray skirt on, the boat was full of air and it tended to hold the water out. I picked up about an inch in the bottom before I made it to shore. About 100 yards.

Something to keep in mind. I did have float bags installed as well.


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