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 Post subject: Just a thought
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:34 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Spruce Head, Maine
I went out for a bit this morning in my LH single. It was 95 degrees at 7am. And humid.

I like this kayak very much. But for me, it would be perfect if it were a little faster, a little lighter and tracked better w/o a rudder with close to the same overalll stability and a similar roomy cockpit (for the fishing part). Is there a folder out there with these characteristics?


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:27 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 12:57 am
Posts: 1246
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Generally longer and faster means narrower and with a smaller cockpit.
Maybe keep your Long Haul for fishing and get a longer, lighter narrower boat for... To balance my Feathercraft bias..
Faltpia Falhawke, long narrow and fast from Japan
Arfeq 520 ( Fujita in North America)
Folbot Cooper
Feathercraft Kahuna/ Big Kahuna easy assembly, light. ( Jun Has one)
Feathercraft Java
Feathercraft Khatsalano
Bergans
Seavivor

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Feathercraft Kahuna ( Angela )
Mariner Express ( Miruku Maru ) ( In Storage)
Northwest Sportee (SuperBoat)
Innova Safari
Mariner I
Feathercraft Java
Nautiraid 14
Innova Sunny
Aire Tributary Sawtooth


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:27 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
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Location: Southeast Michigan
I'm surprised you find the LH doesn't track well enough- it seems to me to be a boat that requires no rudder and very little correction.

Both the Cooper and the K-1 are fast, light boats. Can't go wrong there. I'll have a new Long Haul Ute to try out in a week- that might be another possibility.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 1:57 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Spruce Head, Maine
Quote:
I'm surprised you find the LH doesn't track well enough- it seems to me to be a boat that requires no rudder and very little correction.


Is the case when the boat is unloaded? This has not been my experience.


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 Post subject: Re: Just a thought
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:59 pm 
Paul wrote:
I like this (LH) kayak very much. But for me, it would be perfect if it were a little faster, a little lighter and tracked better w/o a rudder with close to the same overalll stability and a similar roomy cockpit (for the fishing part). Is there a folder out there with these characteristics?


Well, I'm here with Chuck. Faster and lighter usually means one of small-cockpit narrow kayaks like K1 or Khatsalano or Cooper. I can think of only one that is much lighter (about 20 lbs), with large fisherman's cockpit, but with somewhat reduced speed and tracking compared to MK1 - Folbot Kodiak. May be tracking will not be less than in MK1 - but inertial glide will be shorter, it will try to turn off the course shortly after you drop the paddle - this is usual effect with shorter boats. Dave here knows much more about Kodiak. I would think that reduced tracking and top speed of shorter Kodiak VS longer MK1 are acceptable same as reduced top speed and tracking of FC Kahuna VS FC K1. With shorter wetted waterline length (= less paddling efforts) and less wind resistance, Kodiak must feel easier to paddle than MK1.

I don't feel that MK1 without a rudder tracks poorly with my 160 body weight and very little cargo, like 15-20 lbs of overnight gear and food - except for strong winds and very chopped seas. I normally keep rudder down even if don't steer - it works as a fin, stabilising the course, and didn't notice that passive rudder slowed the boat down. May be you should check the trim in unloaded MK1 with paddler only, and adjust your seat location or put some little cargo either fore or behind you.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:06 pm 
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Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:02 pm
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Location: Astoria, OR
Yeah, I know the Kodiak, and would not think of it as faster than a LH. Not much lighter, either. But, a decent fishing platform.

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Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 7:00 pm 
Oh, Dave... You should try the weight of MK1... It is 72 lbs dry and stripped - without seat and rudder. With wet cotton deck must be about 75 lbs. How heavy is Kodiak - 55, 58 with keelstips...


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:07 pm 
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Location: Astoria, OR
Alm wrote:
Oh, Dave... You should try the weight of MK1... It is 72 lbs dry and stripped - without seat and rudder. With wet cotton deck must be about 75 lbs. How heavy is Kodiak - 55, 58 with keelstips...
OK, the Kodiak is maybe 15 lbs lighter. Have not weighed mine.

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Astoria, OR
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Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:07 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 1:06 pm
Posts: 359
Location: Spruce Head, Maine
Quote:
I don't feel that MK1 without a rudder tracks poorly with my 160 body weight and very little cargo, like 15-20 lbs of overnight gear and food - except for strong winds and very chopped seas. I normally keep rudder down even if don't steer - it works as a fin, stabilising the course, and didn't notice that passive rudder slowed the boat down. May be you should check the trim in unloaded MK1 with paddler only, and adjust your seat location or put some little cargo either fore or behind you.


Alex, are you saying the tracking is fine when the rudder is down (albeit not being used to steer) or the tracking is fine with the rudder up? I have no complaints about tracking with the rudder down. I don't like the added resistance, though. With no rudder there's less resistance but too many correction strokes are needed. I prefer to paddle without the rudder at all. I have the seat in the rear most position and am almost 200 pounds--maybe there's not enough hull in the water forward of me. I will try a water bladder up front. Thanks for the idea.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 1:22 am 
Yes, good tracking with rudder down - I don't notice added resistance. Acceptable tracking with rudder up, - I would say, not much worse than in my 17' * 24.5" fiberglass kayak. Mk1 has shorter inertial glide so poorer tracking feels less. I'm spoiled and paddle with rudder down most of the time in any weather. I paddled Mk1 in a strong squall with rudder up (just forgot to lower it, too much other distractions), - it looked like mostly wind resistance against the raised rudder prevented it from going straight - correction strokes were needed after every few forward strokes :-)... I have to say that modified blade a little bit, to raise it higher, so it points up at about 40 degrees now. In original version it protruded almost parallel to water when raised, - a nuisance when you launch it from steep shores.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:26 am 
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1844
Location: Southeast Michigan
Paul wrote:
Quote:
I'm surprised you find the LH doesn't track well enough- it seems to me to be a boat that requires no rudder and very little correction.


Is the case when the boat is unloaded? This has not been my experience.

With me in the boat, it's never lightly loaded ;-)

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Michael Edelman
FoldingKayaks.org Webmaster


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