Looking for our first folding kayak. A Klepper Quattro?

[Christian]

Hi to everybody,
I hope I have inserted the ad in the correct section! I'm a new member!
Last summer on vacation we saw a folding kayak for the first time. And it was love immediately. It was a Klepper Aerius II Quattro.
Our dream is to travel in the Northern Adriatic by traveling two or three weeks, sailing along the Croatian coast ... and further down! Also using the sail (I'm a decent sailor). And use it even in daily outings.
I found this announcement:

https://m.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzei ... 6-211-5592


- Can it be the right boat for our projects? (you have other types of kayaks to recommend)
- What does it look like?
- Is the price correct?
- Since I don't understand anything about folding kayaks, what should I watch out for at the time of purchase?

Thanks a lot for your answers! Any suggestions will be well received!
And given that now little is missing: Merry Christmas!

[gbellware]

Welcome Christian!
Nice boat, for sure. The good: it is the newer 545, which is about a foot longer and much easier to paddle as a double than the earlier 520. The hull looks to be in great shape. That said, I don't think it is an Expedition quattro, can't tell for sure. But if it is an expedition model it will have some nice reinforcement strips on the hull and at least a rear hatch and paddle pockets. Those are really important if you intend to tour/camp with the boat, but I don't see those in the pics. The sail rig is interesting but it does not work very well as a camping/touring rig, it really is limited to day sailing. WIthout outriggers the boat will be a handful in any decent wind, and the rudder is too small for sailing with stock Klepper setup. And there are some very nice sail rigs that can turn this Klepper into a great touring/sailing/camping kayak, take a look at Balogh Sail Designs for the best of that lot. The paddles are expensive and very nice.
All in all I think the kayak is worth maybe $1,500-$2,000 U.S., the paddles another few hundred $'s, but I would not value the rest of the accessories at much more than that. So overall my opinion is that this is overpriced. But that is just an opinion! That is sort of a ramble, but if you want any more specifics just ask, and good luck!
g

[Christian]

Welcome Christian!
Nice boat, for sure. The good: it is the newer 545, which is about a foot longer and much easier to paddle as a double than the earlier 520. The hull looks to be in great shape. That said, I don't think it is an Expedition quattro, can't tell for sure. But if it is an expedition model it will have some nice reinforcement strips on the hull and at least a rear hatch and paddle pockets. Those are really important if you intend to tour/camp with the boat, but I don't see those in the pics. The sail rig is interesting but it does not work very well as a camping/touring rig, it really is limited to day sailing. WIthout outriggers the boat will be a handful in any decent wind, and the rudder is too small for sailing with stock Klepper setup. And there are some very nice sail rigs that can turn this Klepper into a great touring/sailing/camping kayak, take a look at Balogh Sail Designs for the best of that lot. The paddles are expensive and very nice.
All in all I think the kayak is worth maybe $1,500-$2,000 U.S., the paddles another few hundred $'s, but I would not value the rest of the accessories at much more than that. So overall my opinion is that this is overpriced. But that is just an opinion! That is sort of a ramble, but if you want any more specifics just ask, and good luck!
g

Good morning gbellware,
Thanks for the reply.
You have a good eye to see all these details of the photos;)

I'll contact the seller and see what he says about the hull if it's an Expedition or a Quattro!

The outrigger I imagine that they are "obligatory", even more for us who are absolute beginners.

I looked at the sails you recommended to me Balogh Sail Designs.
Are they more performing and more manageable than those of Klepper?
My first impression was that the ones of Klepper being two and with more sail area were more manageable and more balanced on the boat being distributed over a greater length of the boat, and even faster!


Of course it's a fascinating world and I can't wait to start paddling! Better if with the right kayak and bought at the right price!

[gbellware]

Christian,
Couple more opinions...
The S1 or S2 sails that Klepper sells are perfectly functional. But, despite their size, they can't compete with the more modern, high-tech fabric, shaped,fully-battened sails made by BSD. And while neither the Klepper or BSD are easy to strike while underway it can be done much more easily with BSD. And most of the BSD sails can be reefed, in fact many of them have two reefing points that can easily be put "in" or "out" while underway. On the other hand, if you get out and find the wind is too big for you in the Klepper sails your only choice is to take everything down. As you can tell, my opinion of the Klepper sail system is that it is for fair weather day sailing only.
As for outriggers...they used to be thought of a training wheels. Not so. If you use any amount of sail in winds above, say, 10mph you will need outriggers to keep the boat upright. The outriggers turn your kayak into a modified catamaran and I never sail without them.
As for Quattro vs. Expedition...it is not "either/or". Klepper makes the Quattro in standard hull or Expedition hull.
Hope that helps, and good luck with the search!
g

[mje]

I’d say the boat is worth more like $2,500, if it’s in good shape, given that it’s a fairly recent boat. Add $150 for a pair of used paddles. I can’t say how much the sail rig is worth, but it has to be at least a couple of hundred dollars.

What to look for: Mold in the deck. Repaired/patched holes. Areas where the hull has been abraded by rubbing against rocks. Cracks and dry rot in the wooden frame.

[Christian]

And the main question is;
Is the Klepper Quattro a good kayak for what we would like to do?
Remember that I got no one idea of folding kayak!!!!

[gbellware]

You would be hard pressed, imo, to find a better kayak than a Klepper 545 for extended tripping. There are others like it, but the Klepper is rock solid and it has lots of redundancy so that it is safe under very tough conditions, even when you have a mishap. The only kayak I would put up against it is Longhaul, and they are very difficult to find on your side of the pond. As for "Quattro" vs. standard I would not worry about the difference, it is really no big deal. The only difference in the Quattro is that it has another set of sponsons. Everything else is identical to the standard Klepper. The extra sponsons allow you to change the shape of the hull which can create more displacement and, theoretically, more load capacity. I say "theoretically" because inflating the second set of sponsons actually DECREASES the volume of the kayak, but just by a little. Counterintuitive, but it does. In any case, not anything to worry about.
So, yes, it is a great kayak for extended camping trips.
g

[Christian]

last night I spent a lot of time reading this beautiful forum and looking at the photos: it's really full of information and ideas: good! I spent my time looking at the pictures that sails. the BSDs will certainly be more efficient, but the beauty of Klepper's S2 sails is another thing.

C

[JohnSand]

You might buy it as is (if you like the price) and try it out. Upgrades can wait until you really learn the boat as it is. I would try a new boat in warm shallow water close to shore, and sailing in light breezes. Keep us posted.

[john allsop]

It looks very good and not that old. I would buy it. The main difference between the Quattro and the expedition Quattro is I think the expedition has a rear hatch, a front one was an optional extra. I just have the quattro with NO hatches. Loading and unloading is not too bad with no hatches. I would get outriggers, mine are Russian ones with two arms and are quite big inflatables. I will look up who is now making the outriggers for Klepper, they are made in Germany, a good accessory is a jib furler which you can get later. Of course don,t go out in high or strong wind. To see the outriggers that I think Klepper are now using log onto http://www.kajaksegel.de Klepper have the inflatable ones but they are also in ply wood, there is what looks like a good jib furling system. Here is a photo of my outriggers on one of my Kleppers.

[Christian]

Gazie to all of you the advice.
Honestly, the price corresponds to so much money that I sweated a lot to earn.
Even if for all the toys it is right to spend !!!
I will try to lower the price ... let's see what happens, also because I imagine that there aren't many people interested in this time of the year!
There are new photos on the announcement.

https://m.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzei ... id=1&pid=6

and others that have been sent to me, which I attach.

[mje]

Yes, a Klepper double would suit your needs. I’ve had one for almost twenty years. The main difference between the Quattro and the regular double is that the Quattro has a second set of sponsons that are only used when carrying very heavy loads.

[john allsop]

If you can get the price down then that's good. Pity we can,t see the sails open these might be very old. But a new Quattro in Germany is over 3500 e, the sails, paddles, spray cover and all the other accessories would make it a lot higher. Good luck on your quest, it,s a great boat.

[Christian]

I also found this other ad:

https://www.subito.it/sport/kayak-klepp ... 411128.htm

it seems that this boat is practically new and is located 50 miles from my house.

But without sails, carts and other accessories, the paddles are wood (and not carbon).
Instead it presents the spray hood.
And it costs € 500 less ...............

More and more difficult!

[john allsop]

Your stuck for choice. I looked on the klepper site and quoted the wrong price, The basic Quattro seems to be just over 3500e. As this latest one is only 50 miles away go and have a good look, think about the price of the accessories. A pump to blow up the sponsons isn,t needed, a spray cover is and of course paddles, plus a cart is pretty essential. Both boats look good, if the price is right for you.