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 Post subject: Re: BSD transfer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:36 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1127
Location: isles of scilly UK
g, hope you and all our members have an active safe sailing year in 2019 and we don,t find silly excuses to keep us off the water. I guessed you had glued two pieces of ply together to gain the ply strength you required. Your sail set up and abilities puts most of the rest of us into a much lower league where we just add a sail to assist, not have a purpose built sailing system which I am sure is a joy to behold and most likely is an on going project. It looks better than the Klepper Vario Cat which I think has 100 sq ft of sail, two klepper A2s as a base with a joining system, very pricy, I can only now potter about in boats but for me that can be interesting. We of course should be talking about BSD transfer. I don,t have a BSD but I do have a spare large sailboard sail I might play with. Dennis it is interesting looking at all your photos, I could with a dry suit go out most of the year when it is calm enough.


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 Post subject: Re: BSD transfer
PostPosted: Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:01 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
Posts: 169
Greg, I know you prefer your boat to be level. Still, if you could come up with a control board that allows the BSD akas to be mounted a few degrees up from horizontal [see Solway Dory]...and make it fit a Folbot...

I would love to have my amas a few inches above the water but hit the water squarely as the boat heels. I think I experience a fair bit of drag even in modest wind as the amas hit the water. I'm thinking also of a plank mounted athwart behind my seat, extending a bit beyond the gunwhales. This so that I can lean on my forearm and thus shift some weight to windward to counteract heeling, while remaining in the cockpit..

_________________
Ann and me
Folbots: Too many. It's embarrassing.
Feathercraft: Aeronaut
Klepper: AEI - Jonathan Waterman's boat
Hardshells x6


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 Post subject: Re: BSD transfer
PostPosted: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:34 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Posts: 832
Location: atlanta, georgia
Tim,

Good stuff, as usual. I looked at the Solway Dory setup and it looks very cool... both the engineering and fabrication. And the way they explain the balance and stability you get from having the amas off the water a few inches really makes sense, I had not thought of it the way you/they do.
The geometry you want is easiest to achieve with a wooden aka that is either bent or shaped to get the ama to hit the water at the desired righting moment and, at the same time hit the water flat on its bottom. We can do this! Let's discuss later this month in Florida.
For your armrest...have you looked at Klepper's hiking seat? If that doesn't work then we can fabricate one from some marine ply, no problem.

Best,
g

_________________
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1990 A1 Expedition
2010 carbon Klepper Quattro
BSD sail rig, 24' mizzen + 36' main
36' jib
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor


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 Post subject: Re: BSD transfer
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 12:51 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1406
Location: South Salem, NY
Hi John, glad you enjoyed the pics, unfortunately I haven't added any in a while. I should change that right!? haha.

Speaking of dry suits, all this talk about sailing got me inspired to go out a week or so ago. Enthused and with some time off in the middle of winter here, I pulled my dry suit out and was going to give it a test down in the partially frozen lake. But as soon as I went to put it on I realized all my rubber seals were shot; gummy, gooey, stretchy, no good. Anyway, I sent it back to Kokatat last week for seal replacements and general inspection. Really looking forward to getting it back. Unfortunately, it's really starting to get cold now and I'm not sure I'll be able to garner the energy to get out before it starts warming again... we'll see. It's all the prep that kills me... If I could just hop in the boat and sail I'd be golden. But thinking of all the rigging in the cold. Eh.

Tim, I have my aka elevated about 3~4 inches above the forward part of the coaming with Long Haul's BSD mount. It still doesn't equate to a lot of height for the amas above the water, but it certainly helps.

What I have found to be pretty comfortable and stable (with or without the outrigger) is to stack two or three flotation cushions below my seat in the stern of the cockpit (or stacking them on top of the seat). This raises me up to within a few inches of the top of the coaming and really allows for more efficient leaning without actually climbing out of the cockpit. When your body is up that high it's easier to shift weight and keep the ama off of the water, especially if you push down on the sponsons with your hands. It's funny how those few inches between just below the coaming and above it on the hiking board make such a huge difference, but it does. The hiking board is a just a bit to high to sit on and it makes the boat quite tippy (without the outrigger). With the outrigger it would probably be fine and the wings would probably give you just the amount of leverage you need as Greg said.

What I'd really like is a simple sling seat that could be easily hung on the coaming anywhere in the cockpit. I worry about pressure on the coaming though.

I have been trying to think of a good way to make a height adjustable BSD aka for quite a while now. I love the Solway Dory system but it's big and you can't really break it down if you need to paddle. (It looks amazingly efficient though) The Hobie Sidekick system still seems the best for variable height adjustment. I've had an idea kicking around in my brain for a while, I'll try and sketch it out and maybe when you guys get back from Florida we can brainstorm a bit. I'll see if I can locate a fabricator that works with aluminum in my area.

Have a great trip guys! Take pictures!

d

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Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


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 Post subject: Re: BSD transfer
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:56 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
Posts: 169
Greg, my tongue was pressed firmly into my cheek when I suggested the control board. I often dream of modifications that I know I will never implement. The sailing is fun, even with a less-than-perfect setup.

Dennis, I might just try your suggestion soon. I happen to travel with some chunks of 3" closed-cell foam. I have tried sitting on the deck but I'm not a big fan. I find it difficult to quickly change position, e.g. from port to starboard. I suppose that might come with practice, but I still prefer the cockpit.

I am in full agreement about the setup time being a deterrent to sailing more often. That is why I love the Cedar Island and Tall Pines gatherings. We leave our boats assembled and rigged right at the put in, so sailing every day is easy. Here in Flamingo I must travel a few minutes to a put in, but I can leave my boat assembled with crosstube and lowest mast section in place. At home I live near water but I must start from scratch, so I sail less.

_________________
Ann and me
Folbots: Too many. It's embarrassing.
Feathercraft: Aeronaut
Klepper: AEI - Jonathan Waterman's boat
Hardshells x6


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 Post subject: Re: BSD transfer
PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:50 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1406
Location: South Salem, NY
Tim, sitting on the deck is great if you have a nice stiff breeze. At any other point it's a game of tension.

The trick with the cushions is getting it stiff enough to support yourself nicely at elevation. Keep that in mind as you collect items to take out.

I often think of making a board that would hang from the coaming on the inside, height adjustable. But how do you make the hooks?

Have you seen these, they're great if you have enough wind to get up on them.

Image

Here's an idea of what the Sidekicks look like. The bar rotates to three settings. This is set at high, so the other two would be middle and low determined by the bend in the aka.

Image

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


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 Post subject: Re: BSD transfer
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:40 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1127
Location: isles of scilly UK
I will be getting more sailing in this year you have all got me on my toes. So a dry suit is near the top of the list, I am looking at them and a few seem to have front zips, most are at the back, how easy these are to put on? alone might be awkward. Our sea of course dosn,t freeze but it is very cold. The air might be plus 8c and I need to check the water temp. You hit the nail on the head about set up time, that's probably why I have been using the Triak ( if any are still available, on at a good price right now) It can,t be used without it,s outrigger system, take it out bolt on the wing and pontoons, put the mast in and launch, the spinnaker is so so. Don,t know if I can add a photo of a hard shell.


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 Post subject: Re: BSD transfer
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:08 am 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Posts: 832
Location: atlanta, georgia
Tim said:
"I often dream of modifications that I know I will never implement."

I say hogwash! If you can dream it you can do it/make it...hah!

Seriously, I found (accidentally or, maybe, incidentally) a way to adjust the angle of aka and the resulting height of the ama. Each aka on my rig is attached to the control board by two brackets spaced about 10 inches apart. I can shim these brackets to adjust the height by +/= 6 inches at the end of the aka. I haven't done that but I just might have to mess with it some now that you guys have me thinking...hmmm.

g

_________________
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1990 A1 Expedition
2010 carbon Klepper Quattro
BSD sail rig, 24' mizzen + 36' main
36' jib
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor


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 Post subject: Re: BSD transfer
PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2019 10:20 am 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
Posts: 169
Well, we have certainly done a thorough job hijacking this thread. Apology to the OP and thanks to Michael for forbearance.

Dennis, I have tried the Longhaul hikeout bags and didn't really care for the experience. Perhaps I should give them another try. I like the Sidekick idea but I wonder about the ama being attached in only one place, half way from nose to tail as it appears to be in the photo. What happens when waves crash over the ama? Will the nose dive? My amas are located more forward than in the picture, so the bow has less of a chance to raise the ama before the wave hits. I like surfing now and then, but my bow can bury into the next wave fully to the cockpit. Would the ama bury as well, with the force of the passing water rotating the ama about the mount like a dabbling duck? I like John's Russian ama idea, with two mounting points. One of our sailing gathering participants has custom amas like that. Chief of the Watertribe does as well.

That said, since I have returned to the plain (not extreme) BSD amas and inflate them drum-tight, I am pretty happy with their performance.

John, my Kokotat drysuit zips from the back at the shoulder,over the shoulder, and diagonally across the body toward the waist. It can be awkward to zip, and nearly impossible if the zipper is not kept lubricated. I am better at it now that I have zipped many times and am religious about lubricating the zipper. I wear the dry suit if I have any doubt about temperature since, as you very well know, kayak sailing can be a wet ride. My better half has stressed to me, "Dress for immersion!" Sometimes I am too warm, but better that than being in the drink underdressed.

Greg, I'm pleased to have someone else be the beta tester. Being lazy, I tend to be willing to live with the first prototype.

_________________
Ann and me
Folbots: Too many. It's embarrassing.
Feathercraft: Aeronaut
Klepper: AEI - Jonathan Waterman's boat
Hardshells x6


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 Post subject: Re: BSD transfer
PostPosted: Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:44 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1127
Location: isles of scilly UK
We should have had a new heading. Anyway here is how Folbot stopped their pontoon going under and applying the brakes. The cross member was mounted off centre and the longest part goes to the front, it looks wrong but if mounted with the long part at the back a passing wave would pick it up and the front could go below the next wave or water.


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