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PostPosted: Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:53 pm 
Yesterday afternoon we went out in 16-18 MPH wind and had great fun but I am still disappointed with how the leeboards don't keep the bow from sliding away from the wind when we tack. I have to use the rudder way too much to keep the bow going where I want. D. do you have any more information on the leeboards you are working on?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:29 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1160
Location: isles of scilly UK
All being well i will be out on the local lake to-morrow although showers are forecast, i hope there is enough wind. I am sure you need a longer lee board, the one i have made is 49-1/2 inches long x 4-5/8 wide and 1-1/8 thick, very ridgid, from the "pivot hole" it is 43 inches to the bottom and sanded to a "foil" section, not a particular section, just done by eye. It is the length and width because that was the size of the piece of ply i had. (it is three pices of 3/8 ply glued to-gether to make the thickness). As in my opinion the main function of a lee board is to stop the craft being blown sideways it might be better if it is wider, i do have another one which is just over 7 inches wide , this is also pretty long and i will see if i can adapt it for the KS rig as it is made for use with the Klepper outfit with its own cross bar. I think we are thinking of narrow lee boards because the ones supplied with the KS rig are narrow, (although i have never seen anyone who has the KS rig say that they think the lee boards are too narrow) and David did a lot of research and water trials in order to come up with his final design.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:15 pm 
I wish Dave had offered a bigger leeboard option to work better with bigger kayaks. I emailed Dave and have not heard back yet. John in your opinion, do you feel the size you built is working much better for your A2? Or said differently, does it work better than the stock leeboards from KS? Do you use 2 leeboards or just 1?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:15 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1427
Location: South Salem, NY
I'll be home next week and will try and swing by the CNC guys shop and ask a few questions.

Although I love wood, my latest thought is to see if he has a material similar to Dave's KS leeboards and have the material cut identical to Dave's but longer than the original. The other idea is to start similar to Dave's and then taper wide at the bottom like the Klepper board does. I like this second idea for sailing but it will interfere more with paddling when raised.

The plastic material is simple and when it's done it's done. Wood is nicer but will require finishing. You guys have any thoughts or preferences before I go talk to the man?

The reason for this latest thinking is because sailing the T9 last week in really strong winds I had very little side slippage with the standard KS lee boards. I know this is not the case with the larger boats like the AII but it made me wonder if just a little longer might not do the trick. I didn't get a chance to try my long thin flexible leeboard yet.

I also want to add once again that when I sailed the AII with the KS and Klepper lee boards, the combo worked GREAT!

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2013 9:43 am 
lord high faltbotmeister
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Posts: 881
Location: atlanta, georgia
Dennis,

Thanks for chasing this down. My preference is wood, milled/machined and ready for sanding and finishing. The KS leeboards are fiberglass, and it is the high cost of making new molds for longer boards that keeps Dave and Patti from going there. That is a shame, because I think they chose fiberglass for good reason.

g

_________________
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1988 A1 Expedition
2010 carbon Klepper Quattro
BSD sail rig, 24' mizzen + 36' main
39' jib
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:27 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1160
Location: isles of scilly UK
This week we have had no wind so i havn,t been out. My two lee boards are 49 3/4 long x 4 1/2 x 1 1/8 and 40 x 7 x 1 1/8 approximate sizes and both weight 5lb on my scales and that might put a bit too much weight on the KS cross tube so what is needed is boards of about the same length, lighter and ridgid. which is what the ones that Denis is looking into might achive but i think it might need testing before a "large" quantity are made. Ones made of wood are pretty easy to make at home unless you live in an apartment.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:58 am 
John which size seems to work best on your KS? Do you think 1 inch plywood would be enough? How much less would ABS plastic weigh in the same size? The Klepper America mount is ABS and it is heavy too. I also would prefer wood since it looks much better than a piece of plastic, however, a black ABS leeboard would look just like the regular KS leeboards just bigger. Would ABS be rigid enough to not flutter at higher speeds?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:07 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1427
Location: South Salem, NY
Home again... wish I didn't have so much work to catch up on now...

Anyway, this is what I'm thinking. We start with a 3/4" sheet or whatever the mm equivalent is for Marine Ply and have a simple taper cut leading edge to back. Unless the CNC guy can round the edges simply I think I will leave the edge rounding to us.

Here's why: The taper will go one way for the 3/4" thickness. This way you can put two boards together to make a 1.5" leeboard or stick with the 3/4" and try it out plain, fiberglassed or with metal stiffening of your own design. The drawing below shows the hole for the KS mount but I'm going to leave that out so that two boards cut the same way can be fitted together (one gets flipped and rotated for flat edge to flat edge fit) for the double thick design.

Make sense? I think it does, but my mind is in a million places right now. Help me out if I'm not thinking this through properly.

So basically we're looking at a 3/4" (or abouts) blank that will have a taper from front to back on the top side. 48" long and 4" or 5" wide (I was going to match the current KS design). We can each get four or more boards and have the balance cut to whatever thicknesses we want to be used for other coaming mounting boards or I'll just keep the balance it you guys aren't interested. But once we're here why not cut some slotted boards for mounting on the coaming?

What do you think?

Here are two rough images I made in Google Sketchup (I don't know what I'm doing...) to give you an idea of what the blank will look like. Remember you'll still have to do sanding, cut the hole, and put whatever finish on it that you think best and add a handle if you like. I think I'll go fiberglass; it should add a little strength and it looks good on this wood, I did my shower walls this way... but that's a story for another time...

Image

Image

I'll try and get prices next week so we can see if this is feasible $ wise. Sadly it may not be worth it with so much finishing still involved.

One other thought I had is to go thinner on the wood with the intent on putting two halves together. Have a groove cut down the center of each flat side that will hold a piece of threaded rod before gluing together the two halves. If we did this with 1/4 or 3/8 board we could have a double tapered board that's only 1/2 ~ 3/4 inch thick... more work of course and how much stiffness would the rod add? Probably a fair bit.

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:45 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister
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Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Posts: 881
Location: atlanta, georgia
looks good to me Dennis. And I really like the rebar idea. I don't mind doing the finishing and rounding, but it would be a shame to have to cover the pretty (to me) plywood grain that will be created on the chamfer.
Either way, I'm in, and thanks for your work on this,

g

_________________
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1988 A1 Expedition
2010 carbon Klepper Quattro
BSD sail rig, 24' mizzen + 36' main
39' jib
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:38 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1160
Location: isles of scilly UK
Dennis it looks good, i think the tapered sides could be glued together so starting the leading edge shape. I use one long lee board as you know, on one side only, i was out yesterday in our one mile per hour winds seeing if i could get some sail assist to my paddle. One thing i noticed is the longer lee board length seems to pick up more weed and hit objects which are below the surface such as tree trunks ( i live in an area that has been and still is forested) so i think a bugee cord might be needed for some of us to allow the lee board to flex backwards if it needs to, and return to it,s setting once the object has been passed.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:43 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1427
Location: South Salem, NY
Ha! That's a pretty good idea John! I love it.

Greg, I've fiberglassed marine ply before and it looks great. You keep all the good looks of the grain as the fiberglass cloth pretty much disappears with the epoxy. It takes on a little bit of yellow color but with natural wood you really don't see it.

I like the idea of the rod as well. I think I'll pursue that idea some more.

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:42 pm 
Sounds good. I'm in but when you get a cost let us know.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:58 pm 
faltbootemeister
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:41 am
Posts: 225
FrankP wrote:
I wish Dave had offered a bigger leeboard option to work better with bigger kayaks. I emailed Dave and have not heard back yet. John in your opinion, do you feel the size you built is working much better for your A2? Or said differently, does it work better than the stock leeboards from KS? Do you use 2 leeboards or just 1?


The leeboard from BSD seems pretty adequate. We had no problems while sailing.

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Seasick & Grumpy enjoying a Long Haul Mark II Commando with BSD 36' HP Sport sail

http://vimeo.com/channels/travelotherapy


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:20 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1427
Location: South Salem, NY
The BSD leeboard is GREAT! It's just really expensive if you buy it ala carte.

I think we'd all like it to connect directly to the KS as well. But, the BSD board is always one of my first thoughts when it comes to design.

Did you guys get a chance to do your Northern ocean trip this summer?

d

_________________
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:24 am 
faltbootemeister
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:41 am
Posts: 225
DLee wrote:
The BSD leeboard is GREAT! It's just really expensive if you buy it ala carte.

I think we'd all like it to connect directly to the KS as well. But, the BSD board is always one of my first thoughts when it comes to design.

Did you guys get a chance to do your Northern ocean trip this summer?

d


Yes, we did. Just returned 3 days ago.

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Seasick & Grumpy enjoying a Long Haul Mark II Commando with BSD 36' HP Sport sail

http://vimeo.com/channels/travelotherapy


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