Spring Creek outfitters questions

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DLee
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Re: Spring Creek outfitters questions

Post by DLee »

Chris will give you the scientific lowdown on the Hobie's and I look forward to that. I can give you some experiential lowdown of them. I like the Hobies. They are not nearly the volume of the BSDs, but they do work.

The thing that makes them versatile however also makes them a little vulnerable. I'm not sure how you're thinking of mounting them but they way they come stock allows them to swivel around a height adjustable bar which is very handy (although I've never used that feature...). I used them in the high position on my AEII with the S2 sail rig. They do work great. I sailed with them several times on my T9 as well without a problem.

One time however, I was sailing the AEII a bit aggressively, let my concentration slip, and nearly capsized by letting the leeward ama dive down too hard into the water. As the ama dove it nearly flipped inverted, but it didn't. The action of the ama woke me up and I was able to release the sail in time to prevent a possible capsize. I say possible because I don't know if the ama would have prevented capsizing or not.

Chris was pushed over with outriggers - I can't imagine what a fiasco that must have been out on the water. Certainly no fun. I'm certain the Hobies could be pushed over as well. What I like about the Hobies is that they are a more than adequate early warning system. I don't think I'd rely on them to take the full burden of a Force 6 wind and full S2 sail rig flying without counter measures. But used as a tool for becoming familiar with your sail rig or even adding a 60-70% safety factor for a leisurely day out. I think they are excellent. Probably the best thing about them is that they are adjustable and very easily set up or broke down while out on the water.

Image
You can see them here, tucked under the cockpit, inflated and ready to slap on if I need them.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

treecutter
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Re: Spring Creek outfitters questions

Post by treecutter »

Thanks Denis, The Hobbies are meant to fit on arms of the the Spring Creek Universal receiver. If I did get them my plan was to use the solid HD's and the inflatable Hobbies at the same time.
If not that, then I would use 2 HD floats on each side ( total of 4 floats ) and I wonder how much wind that could take before capsize. Perhaps 26 mph gusts?
You can see the set up on the Sailboats To Go site.
My real preference is to use 4 solid floats. Then I don't have to worry about punctures, cold water deflation and wear.
I also notice that Balogh has several different grades of floats for heavy use.

treecutter
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Re: Spring Creek outfitters questions

Post by treecutter »

I forgot to mention--- That is a beautiful photo Denis. Where did you take it?

john allsop
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Re: Spring Creek outfitters questions

Post by john allsop »

Treecutter, of course you must sail within reasonable limits and you have to decide what is safe for you. A handheld wind meter such as the Windmaster 2 is very good. I wouldn,t go much above force 4 which at it,s top end is about 18 MPH. Any outrigger system will fail or the mast and sails will go if the weather conditions are not considered so a weather radio is another good investment if you are in an area covered by shipping forecasts thats good. I live on a very small island 28 miles from the UK mainland so we have to consider weather conditions, some days even the ferry and air links to the mainland UK are cancelled. I now have large outriggers.
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treecutter
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Re: Spring Creek outfitters questions

Post by treecutter »

John, I usually pack it in at 12-15 knots. I really like those Russian outriggers.

jcwlx
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Re: Spring Creek outfitters questions

Post by jcwlx »

Hello Treecutter, I found your e-mail this morning and just sent you a reply with the 3 files including spreadsheet. Call me once you have reviewed it and understand at least some of what is contained therein. Thanks.
Chris
1965 Klepper Aerius 2 with 2005 Long Haul hull
1965 Klepper S4 sail rig, with 14 sq ft jib; Sail Rite 32 sq ft genoa; and 41 sq ft main
BSD/BOSS-Wilkes modified outriggers
Spring Creek outriggers
Souris River Canoe
Wegu 19'Sailboat

DLee
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Re: Spring Creek outfitters questions

Post by DLee »

Treecutter, thanks, that picture was made out on Long Island Sound.

I have the black BOSS amas. They seem to be really well made and plenty heavy duty. I don't think you could go wrong with these. In mounting, these BOSS amas have a slightly upward angle position so that the tail rides more on the water than the nose - so just like skiing, riding the tail is more efficient than plowing the nose. I thought that was a pretty good design move. I hope to try the BOSS rig out in the next couple of weeks before it gets cold - I just need to decide which boat to use, MK1 or AEII.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

DLee
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Re: Spring Creek outfitters questions

Post by DLee »

Treecutter. Chris W. will have some volume numbers for the Spring Creek amas. Looking at the pictures though of your and John's rigs, you can see that those amas are slight in volume. Their aerodynamic shape also looks like they will dive readily. I think your idea of adding Hobie amas, or better yet BOSS amas, might give you a larger margin of error.

It would be especially nice if you could raise the aka a bit so that the inflatable amas don' come into contact with the water as soon as the SC ones do. The SC amas are obviously better streamlined for the job at hand. Maybe you could use the SC's for a little stability in a lower mounted position and then the inflatable would be backup whenever the SC gets driven down into the water. This would also lessen the concern of inflation pressure on the BOSS or Hobie ama as it's job will be more buoyancy than glide-stability. But raising the aka will be necessary to create clearance for either BOSS or Hobie.

ChrisT mentioned in the other thread that the BOSS amas create a bit of drag... that made me come back to look at the Spring Creek amas and their rigging. In terms of safety though, I'd be surprised if two SC's equal the volume of one BOSS. I know the info is in one of the threads back here... maybe ChrisW will chime in or I can find it.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

DLee
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Re: Spring Creek outfitters questions

Post by DLee »

I found the info ChrisW gave to me a while back - thank you Chris for doing this fine work.

Outrigger/ama Volume in cubic feet:

Spring Creek: 0.484

Harmony sponson: 0.76

Hobie Sidekick: 1.0

BSD BOSS: 2.345


I added this info to the 'Visual Sail Comparison' thread for easy reference

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

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