Any KayakSailors out there? 1st & 2nd impression of new rig

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MoeJoe

Any KayakSailors out there? 1st & 2nd impression of new rig

Post by MoeJoe »

Any KayakSailors out there? Being folding, lightweight and a complete package including daggerboards I imagine that it could be interesting for more folding kayakers than myself. http://www.kayaksailor.com/

I finally got my 2010 1.6 rig from Kayaksailor.com last week and today I did the first trial run, which IMO was a great success.

The fastening on the Kahuna was a bit of a improvisation with varios lines and buckles I had already, but it still did stay pretty much in place without any need for adjustments during the 4+ hours I was out. I'll make a setup that is a bit more neat and quick for next time likely.

At first I was a bit concerned about how the rudder struggled to keep the boat on course without being fully turned and thus acting as a break, but after a while I figured out that I of course should balance the boat with the daggerboards that are controlled by handles. So, I pretty much steered the boat after that by changing the angle of the daggerboards, rather than using the rudder.

Leaning and using the paddle for bracing.. Definately needed as this rig is intended to be used without outriggers, and today the winds were 6-9 m/s with gusts well above 10 m/s. But as I got more familiar with the balancing under wind pressure, I used the paddle less and less and used leaning more and more. Had to stay pretty alert under these conditions, gusts can quickly make the boat lean hard.

Highest speed today (GPS measured) was 10.1 km/h, and I was often doing 9-9.5 km/h downwind. Going upwind as high as the rig and boat allowed, I averaged about 5-5.5 km/h. Altough I could point the boat 40-45 degrees upwind, highest true direction upwind with todays conditions (some current as well in the sound between land and islands) was probably not more than 50-60 degrees, if I read the GPS route tracking about right. Of course, with some assistance with the paddle, I could go closer to wind and maintain a decent pace upwind with moderate effort.

Never tried the rig with reefed sail today, might do that next time. But on the other hand, if it is controllable up to 10 m/s , might not be worth while. I doubt I'll intentionally go sailing in stronger winds than that, but time will tell as I get more experience and confidence in the setup.

Next time I'll position the rig a bit further forward, to allow more room for proper paddle strokes.

Time for some pictures, hopefully I'll get it right. (Sea looks pretty calm on those but of course, I couldn't fiddle with the camera while leaning and bracing at full speed, so I took the shots at sheltered areas)

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Last edited by MoeJoe on Fri Jul 30, 2010 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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gbellware
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Re: Any KayakSailors out there? First impressions of new rig

Post by gbellware »

Looks like a pretty nice setup, and I had never heard of the company. I am looking for a rig for my Klepper Aerius II, and am trying to decide between the Balogh vs. adding outriggers to my S-2 and now...this is a third alternative. Did you consider Balogh? Any idea about difference in these rigs? Nice pics, thanks for posting,
g
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1988 A1 Expedition
2010 carbon Klepper Quattro
BSD sail rig, 24' mizzen + 36' main
39' jib
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor

MoeJoe

Re: Any KayakSailors out there? First impressions of new rig

Post by MoeJoe »

Hi,

I don't have any experience with the Balogh rigs but they look nice. A larger package it seems, bigger sail area, outriggers etc. A lot more expensive also, 2-3 times that of my rig. But perhaps worth it if one wants to have a "proper" sailing kayak, I don't know.

I chose the Kuvia KayakSailor rig for its low weight, portability, reasonable price (USD 599 for 2010 model) and ability to fold rig while out on the sea (if conditions becomes overpowering). Also quite easy to attach it to "any" kayak, e.g. if I'd use a hardshell rental some time.

I think that 2009 was Kayaksailors first production year, so they are probably not that well know yet. And the 2010 models have some improvements in materials, sail shape etc.

Likely next week I'll head out for a longer trip, a couple of days at least. After that I guess I can give more than first impressions.

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gbellware
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Re: Any KayakSailors out there? First impressions of new rig

Post by gbellware »

Thanks, I am definitely interested in your second impression. This design is pretty slick and it would allow me to use on both the A2 and the Kahuna, with some work on mounts.

Happy sailing,
g
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1988 A1 Expedition
2010 carbon Klepper Quattro
BSD sail rig, 24' mizzen + 36' main
39' jib
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor

MoeJoe

Re: Any KayakSailors out there? 1st & 2nd impression of new

Post by MoeJoe »

Okey, been out Monday-Thursday this week, trip report with some pictures and a short video clip here: http://jarladventures.blogspot.com/

In summary: Worked great, some additional, more sturdy straps helped a lot. I might look at some mounting block or strong velcro to secure on center ridge, but in no hurry as it worked fine like this as well.

It's definatately a keeper. Might look at longer, stiffer folder though (K1 or Whisper XP) for even better rig performance.. :D Pro-active and helpful customer support adds to the positive experience.

Image

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Re: Any KayakSailors out there? 1st & 2nd impression of new

Post by gbellware »

MoeJoe,

Thanks for the great pics and the followup on the sail rig. I spoke at length with the owners of the company and we agreed that my plans to fabricate a rig for the Klepper, using the mast stay and foot, will probably work. So I ordered the sail and will report back when I have had a chance to get the rigging together.

Best,
g
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1988 A1 Expedition
2010 carbon Klepper Quattro
BSD sail rig, 24' mizzen + 36' main
39' jib
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor

MoeJoe

Re: Any KayakSailors out there? 1st & 2nd impression of new

Post by MoeJoe »

Cool, hope it works out nicely for you!

machone

Re: Any KayakSailors out there? 1st & 2nd impression of new

Post by machone »

Hi

I am thinking about buying a kayaksailer rig for my wayland amazon 2. Can you tell me is the mast angle adjustable as the angle of the center ridge for the wayland is steeper than lots? Also, how did you secure the rig to your feathercraft?

Thanks and thanks for the report and pictures.

Richard

MoeJoe

Re: Any KayakSailors out there? 1st & 2nd impression of new

Post by MoeJoe »

No, I don't think the mast angle can be adjusted. But perhaps you could make some deck rig fitting. The owner's gallery on the Kayaksailor blog might give some ideas: http://blog.kayaksailor.com/your-photos/ I use a couple of straps, as can be seen on my blog.
Last edited by MoeJoe on Tue Aug 24, 2010 3:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

KeyMeKoe

Re: Any KayakSailors out there? 1st & 2nd impression of new

Post by KeyMeKoe »

MoeJoe, I viewed the installation videos on the kayaksailor website. Perhaps you could ask Patty to make a installation video for Folding Kayaks.

Romainpek

Re: Any KayakSailors out there? 1st & 2nd impression of new

Post by Romainpek »

machone wrote:Hi

I am thinking about buying a kayaksailer rig for my wayland amazon 2.
Wayland is selling very cheap (compared to Klepper!) sail rigs on their website. Why not try it first?

Technically, it's a standing lug with jib.

Alm

Re: Any KayakSailors out there? 1st & 2nd impression of new

Post by Alm »

Romainpek wrote: Wayland is selling very cheap (compared to Klepper!) sail rigs on their website. Why not try it first?

Technically, it's a standing lug with jib.
And he is right. Jib and lug are stable and capable of upwind with a proper leeboard. The cost is one half of a Kayaksailor rig, with a larger total area, I suspect. The mast of Wayland rig won't lower itself onto the deck - you have to take it out of the mast collar (if you really have to), but this shouldn't be a problem on a big boat like Klepper or Wayland double.

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Re: Any KayakSailors out there? 1st & 2nd impression of new

Post by gbellware »

Greetings,

If anyone is considering the kayaksailor rig, please just note that it is a very unconventional sail. That is not a bad thing, at least for my purposes. This rig is very sophisticated, really well-engineered contraption. The sail is a fully-battoned air foil, more like you would see in a wind surfing sail. Both the leeboards and the sail can be deployed and stowed instantly (on deck and amidship) with hand controls and lines. Stowed or deployed, they can be made completely clear of my paddle stroke. The challenge is mounting on a folder, as the design definitely favors hardshells, using drilled anchor points. With some creativity the rig can be lashed to a folder, but it is not perfect. I have discussed with the owners of Kuvia (the name of the Kayaksailor company) and KlepperAmerica, who are collaborating on a mount to take advantage of the mast stay and foot of the Klepper (and any other so equipped folder). In the meantime, the solution for mounting on a folder without the mast stay is tricky but worth it, imo.

Best,
g
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1988 A1 Expedition
2010 carbon Klepper Quattro
BSD sail rig, 24' mizzen + 36' main
39' jib
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor

Paul
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Re: Any KayakSailors out there? 1st & 2nd impression of new

Post by Paul »

If a solution is found for using the sail rig with your existing mast collar and foot, won't this impact your paddling stroke? The mounting in MoeJoe's photos are more forward on the kayak, it seems.
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gbellware
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Re: Any KayakSailors out there? 1st & 2nd impression of new

Post by gbellware »

No, mounting with the stay and foot will not, necessarily, impede your stroke. The plan is to attach the aft section of the long, squarest, horizontal tube of the rig to a vertical tube captured by the stay and foot. Easier done than said.
G
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1988 A1 Expedition
2010 carbon Klepper Quattro
BSD sail rig, 24' mizzen + 36' main
39' jib
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor

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