Falco Folding Kayak

Discussion of user-built folding kayaks

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mattias

Re: Falco Folding Kayak

Post by mattias »

Hi Tom

I'm a big fan of your kayaks. The new Falco design looking very nice and it seem to have great potential. I have built your Sea Ranger Lc a couple of years ago. It really open my eyes to "Greenland" style kayaks and i'm very satisfied with my Sea Ranger. Maybe the Falco could be a replacement to my Sea Ranger. The short assembly time looking really tempting compared to my the Sea Ranger. Look forward hear the report how it handles in more challenging conditions.

Great work!!

Mattias

gmchris

Re: Falco Folding Kayak

Post by gmchris »

Looks really nice Tom! You need to either take someone with you so we can see some Falco pics with you on board (or maybe find a lake with a large mirror!!)

This may be a bit off-topic, but i notice that the bow and stern keel angles are quite shallow on the Falco 16, and i'm guessing that when you build the Falco double they will be more vertical as on your previous doubles, and the Falco 12 falls somewhere in between. Why is there a difference in design, is it for manouverability, or volume buoyancy , or something else? (just being nosey and like to learn new things lol)

Yostwerks

Re: Falco Folding Kayak

Post by Yostwerks »

Mattias ...
The short assembly time looking really tempting compared to my the Sea Ranger. Look forward hear the report how it handles in more challenging conditions.
Thanks, I'll let you know how it paddles in many different conditions.
gmchris
...i notice that the bow and stern keel angles are quite shallow on the Falco 16, and i'm guessing that when you build the
Falco double they will be more vertical as on your previous doubles, and the Falco 12 falls somewhere in between. Why is there
a difference in design, is it for manouverability, or volume buoyancy , or something else?
The Falco 12 is a very short design at 12'4", so in order to maximize waterline length, I kept the stems very steep. The main reason for this
is hull speed, though greater displacement is also a factor. The double will be similar in design to the 12 footer though the stems may be a
bit shallower.

The Falco 16 is a Greenland design like the Sea Ranger (17.5') that Mattias built in the post above. These boats are characterized by low gunwale height and shallow sloping stems.
The Falco 16 bow and stern slope is 18 inches, and the Sea Ranger has a bow slope of 24" and stern slope of 18".

Regards, Tom

Chucao

Re: Falco Folding Kayak

Post by Chucao »

Hi Tom,

I want to thank you for all your work and information you share with us!!

I have a few questions,
Does the ply run free in the channel or is it a close fit ?
Whats the distance you have between Ply panels in the PVC hinge so as to allow them to fold?
I imagine that the “U” aluminum channel has one longer side so as to stick to the Ply , could you give the dimensions.

When will include these new boats in your page? :D

Regard,

Martin

Yostwerks

Re: Falco Folding Kayak

Post by Yostwerks »

I want to thank you for all your work and information you share with us!!
Martin,

My pleasure ... I'm still working on the various folding aspects of these prototypes and will provide
the detailed information you asked about when all is finalized after completion of the Falco Double.
Please do not attempt to build these boats until I write instructions later this summer.

I paddled a couple hours in the Falco 12 yesterday. Fun little boat, a bit like a Feathercraft K-Light except for the price ($125.00US)
and assembly time ( 5 minutes) ... Folding is only an option as seen below :D

http://www.yostwerks.com/FalcoBMW4.jpg - Use the {BACK} key to return from this link.
http://www.yostwerks.com/FalcoPaddleApril5B.jpg

Regards, Tom

Chucao

Re: Falco Folding Kayak

Post by Chucao »

Tom.


No problem I will wait for instructions :D

In the mean time , Please keep us posted with your impressions of how these new designs behave in the water.!!

Do you think If it is possible to make a solo version , but with a large open cockpit. (Pirogue type, for flat protected waters)
using this new building concept.


Thanks in advance


Martin

Yostwerks

Re: Falco Folding Kayak

Post by Yostwerks »

Do you think If it is possible to make a solo version , but with a large open cockpit. (Pirogue type, for flat protected waters)
using this new building concept.
How open ? ... The Pirogue's I've seen are like open top canoes. In that case, my low gunwale kayak designs will be a very wet ride.
On the other hand, if you are talking about washboard type coamings like Klepper, etc. I reckon that would work ok.

Tom

Chucao

Re: Falco Folding Kayak

Post by Chucao »

Tom,

I was thinking more in a canoe type, similar the puffin – Packboats.
But I guess , that with more freeboard you get a lot of Weathercocking.

The other problem are the plywood cross sections, that shoud be open at the top
or moved around so as to leave you with a big open space at midship !!

The Klepper type is a better all around design, but a wood washboard seems to complicate things.
maybe an inflatable sponson as washboard could simplify the construction.

Regards

Martin

Yostwerks

Re: Falco Folding Kayak

Post by Yostwerks »

I was thinking more in a canoe type, similar the puffin – Packboats.
But I guess , that with more freeboard you get a lot of Weathercocking.

The other problem are the plywood cross sections, that shoud be open at the top
or moved around so as to leave you with a big open space at midship !!

The Klepper type is a better all around design, but a wood washboard seems to complicate things.
Martin,

Deck modifications are relatively simple changes to a design, and a washboard coaming is no exception.

Here's a Link to Dave Gentry's website. He may have some open canoe and washboard kayak designs that
might be of interest to you, or could be modified to meet your requirements.

http://www.gentrycustomboats.com/

Tom

Chucao

Re: Falco Folding Kayak

Post by Chucao »

Tom,

Thank you for the link !!

Martin

trigger

Re: Falco Folding Kayak

Post by trigger »

Tom,

Do you think replacing the plywood with corrugated plastic like coroplast would be possible. It is pretty much resistant to all weather conditions a kayak could encounter. And HDPE cross sections. I know this would raise the build cost, but it may increase its lifespan and weather resistance. Also would it be as rigid as the plywood.

Of course, I'm no professional hence my question. The plywood treated may be just as resistant.

Thank you
Adam

Yostwerks

Re: Falco Folding Kayak

Post by Yostwerks »

Do you think replacing the plywood with corrugated plastic like coroplast would be possible.
Anything is possible :D but I've never used it. Plywood has been used extensively in kayak building for a long time so it's durability
is not in question.

I know little about the strength or flex / reflex characteristics of coroplast. I've seen pics of a few coroplast kayaks
and was not impressed. They appear to be more like toy boats rather than serious kayaks.
HDPE cross sections. I know this would raise the build cost, but it may increase its lifespan and weather resistance.
Again, plywood cross sections are well proven by kayak homebuilders and commercially, and also by the hundreds of my own kayak designs built using it. Plus, it would be a simple matter to replace a hinged plywood cross section in the Falco. Light weight and low cost are important aspects of the Falco designs, and HDPE doesn't meet either requirement by comparison.

I use HDPE because it can be "snapped" onto aluminum stringers on certain types my folding kayak. Since the Falco has no such requirement, HDPE offers no advantages, and possibly a few disadvantages... The Falco folds using PVC hinges, and PVC to plywood can be glued using Vinyl cement... HDPE plastic can not, and the same is likely true of Coroplast.

Here's a few pics from this weekend. I was trying out a new waterproof camera.

Use the {BACK} key to return from each link... Tom

http://www.yostwerks.com/Falco12Dillon1.jpg - Folding is an "option" :mrgreen:

http://www.yostwerks.com/Falco12Dillon2.jpg

http://www.yostwerks.com/Falco12Dillon3.jpg - Pic before the winds came up. It handles wind very well.
If you don't use a GP, you don't know what your missing !

http://www.yostwerks.com/18Apr1211.jpg - There is something to be said for a small travel kayak, folding or not.
... Easy to load, and no overhang. Eight feet between cradles helps also.

mje
Site Admin
Posts: 1913
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Location: Southeast Michigan

Re: Falco Folding Kayak

Post by mje »

Coroplast has no stiffness to speak of. You might try to make a sandwich of several plies of Coroplast with the cells running at right angles to increase the stiffness, but it would be bulkier, heavier, and more costly than good plywood.
Michael Edelman
FoldingKayaks.org Webmaster

gmchris

Re: Falco Folding Kayak

Post by gmchris »

Mmm all gone quiet on the falco front.


How's the double going Tom?
Any further outings in the 12/16 or modifications intended?
Call me sad but i'm missing the regular read of this thread lol

trigger

Re: Falco Folding Kayak

Post by trigger »

Tom,

So long since I've heard any news about the falco. So long since I've been graced with your updates. So long since I've had a project to occupy my time.

I'm dieing to start a new project, and the falco is all I can dream about. I want to build a falco, a falco prototype, a falco sweater...

Even if just to occupy my time and quench my desire for power tools. please, please, please...

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