Folding Kayaks Forum

The user forum for FoldingKayaks.org
It is currently Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:01 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 8:50 pm 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:02 pm
Posts: 1035
Location: Astoria, OR
Among my paddlemates I am known as "Tarpman" for my addiction to pitching (and interminably adjusting and fine tuning) tarps. In the Pacific Northwest USA (and BC), tarps are adjuncts to tents ... used to provide a spot to stand up under shelter when it is raining, and a sheltered spot for cooking meals. Tents with bug-proof netting are mandatory -- not for the crawlies, but the biteys: mosquitoes, no-see-ums, and deer- and black-flies.

We have trees ... galore. Without trees, and the associated detritus (aka "driftwood") in the wrack on the shoreline, Tarpman would be in deep ... driftwood -- NOT!

For areas barren of materials to support tarps, it is really worth it to carry along (on deck, if they won't fit underdecks) some metal tubing which forms poles for tarping. Poles on tarps take a lot more strain than the poles for low-profile backpacking style tents, and need to be bombproof.

If you do not need to worry about either rain or bugs, anything will do. It's the rain and the bugs that make sleeping under tarps anathema.

BTW, Mary, "commando camping" such as you describe is facilitated by use of camo tarps; camo is one of the ingredients manifested here in the Colonies which the Empire never figured out.

_________________
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
--
Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 3:07 am 
Quote:
For areas barren of materials to support tarps, it is really worth it to carry along (on deck, if they won't fit underdecks) some metal tubing which forms poles for tarping. Poles on tarps take a lot more strain than the poles for low-profile backpacking style tents, and need to be bombproof.

I think, Eureka 6ft Nested Aluminum Poles will fit under any deck, and at 12 oz weight even a backpacker can afford carrying it:
http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=12049&memberId=12500226
6ft long, or 26" when nested. And there are also 8ft nested poles, same 26" stowed length. They are not adjustable (well, 3 choices - 2, 4 or 6 ft), but, as I don't enjoy tuning up and adjusting the tarp, this work well for me, and I couldn't find anything lighter and smaller. For stowing in MK1 I've cut all the parts to 22" nested length (the longest spacing between the ribs), so now my 6ft poles have become about 5 ft, which makes tying ropes to them easier. Doesn't make a full-height shelter, though - but okay for sitting under. Weight is now down to 10 or 11 oz. Full height shelter needs 8ft poles anyway, as the ropes are sagging in the middle. The walls of this tubing are thin, not for gale force winds, but then, I don't pitch the tarp in strong winds with rain - too much hassle and it won't keep me dry anyway.

And there is also Kelty Noah 8ft adjustable pole, a bit long when stowed - 28", and it's not nested, so it takes 3 times more room under deck (and weighs 2.5 times more than 6 ft nested pole).

One thing that a kayaker should never buy, is a 2-part adjustable steel pole. Terribly long, 3 or 4 ft stowed, and not stainless. What a crap...


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:26 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Sorry-- I've been off line for a while.

Dave: last time I checked, the Brits weren't using those red coats, anymore. I haven't been to any re-enactments, lately, but when I visited the British contingent in Mazar-e-Sharif, they were appropriately dressed. No one else is as stylish, though, as US Marines in their new, tapered, digi-camo. The Marines are looking very sharp.

Tarps:
creepy crawlies and mozzies: The Ray-way tarp has a an insert made of netting, which also has a bit of a groundheet. It works beautifuly, and also weighs a pound. Thats 2 lbs (800-900 grams) for the tarp and the netting together, which is less than any tent and also less than my Hennessy Hammock.
Pitching without trees: no problem! Isn't that why they make 2-piece kayak paddles? Paddles fit the bill perfectly.
Commando-camping: Let's put it this way: when you go out to pee and you're using a dark-colored tarp, you learn not to wander too far because you can't find the tarp again (I've had a few tense moments!). Tarps blend in extremely well.
More on creepy-crawlies: A lot of this is in our minds. Once you try a tarp, you realize that they aren't as much of an issue as you would have thought.

The H-Hammock: I took mine on my French canal trip. You need two trees of the right size, the right distance apart. If that sounds like a pain in the butt, you are very perceptive. It doesn't keep your gear dry, either, but if you have dry bags that's not such a big deal. They are extremely comfortable if the stars all align, but I found it more of a hassle than a tarp. One of the biggest advantages of a hammock, of course, is that it keeps you off of wet or dirty or thorny ground-- perfect for wetlands/swamp/mangroves/everglades, for instance.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 2:29 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Kaptain von Klepper wrote:
chrstjrn wrote:
Tents have their place, but in the seasons I mentioned the tarp is drier and more comfortable-- also closer to nature and lighter.


I'm still debating between camping or pubing (?) for my upcoming Euro kayaking marathon. Camping could seriously reduce my trip overhead. How do you feel about tarps and summer canal touring?

-Andreas


Definitly the way to go. And a tarp weighs so little that, if you decide not to use it, it's no problem.

Another thing to consider, in this vein: the ponchos that can convert to use as a tarp. I haven't tried, but I think a poncho might also work well for paddling in rain.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: tent
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 11:02 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1006
Location: isles of scilly UK
ANDREA,S I come from the uk, I would go pubbing, if they are convenient and affordable, you,ll meet some interesting locals and have good basic food,


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:36 pm 
Krudave wrote:
camo is one of the ingredients manifested here in the Colonies which the Empire never figured out.

And now for the rest of the story...
OK, I know I'm off topic but I can't resist the jab; According to Barbara W. Tuchman's Pulizer prize winning book, "Guns of August" the Empire was the first military to adapt khaki for its field uniform, -during the Boer War (Where they incidently also invented the internment camp :( for civilians).
Many of the combatants arrived for the party at Flander's Field dressed, well, er, like they were going to a party. The Brits had learned from their catostrophic war in South Africa however, that reds, etc. weren't the best colours for hiding from the enemy. The Yanks re-learned this lesson shortly thereafter, but not in time for Little Big Horn or even the final stages of their war against the Apaches. The Yanks finally did adapt Khaki for the Spanish American War and patroling the Border to guard against Pancho Villa's raids. -So in the end, the Yanks arrived to the later party, er, late, but appropriately dressed at least.
We Chileans however, were still using Navy Blues in our war of agression against Peru and Bolivia in a desert where Khaki would have made more sense. However we (for the most part :? ) decided to give the later party at the Plain of Flander a miss and became quite wealthy selling nitrates (for gun powder) and copper (for shell casings) to both sides from the territory we won from the Peruvians and Bolivians.

-Opps, I need to go back to the topic of Tents > Tarps as I see Krudave and other admin are about to burst a gasket. :wink:
And now back to our sponsor... :wink:
chrstjrn wrote:
Pitching without trees: no problem! Isn't that why they make 2-piece kayak paddles? Paddles fit the bill perfectly.
Do you recommend lashing the tarp to the paddles with little bits of string?


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 2:22 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1686
Location: Southeast Michigan
Tuchman is a very entertaining writer, but gets a lot of her facts wrong ;-) British troops in India dyed uniforms khaki 40 years prior to the Boer Wars- the name itself is of Hundi-Urdu origin. US Troops adopted Khaki in the Spanish-American War, which began before the Boer Wars.

_________________
Michael Edelman
FoldingKayaks.org Webmaster


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 3:59 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Kapitän von Klepper wrote:

chrstjrn wrote:
Pitching without trees: no problem! Isn't that why they make 2-piece kayak paddles? Paddles fit the bill perfectly.
Do you recommend lashing the tarp to the paddles with little bits of string?


There are a few different ways of doing this, and no "right" way-- that is one of the beauties of using a tarp: there are so many strategies that work. My preferred method, when I'm on a beach and have to use paddles instead of trees, has been to loop the lines around and through the central ferrule, with the blades in the rocks/sand, and then run the line on down to the ground (much further out) and tie off to a rock or driftwood. Tieing off to rocks works a lot better than you would think, and you can get through storms this way. If anyone has a better way, I'd be glad to try it out.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:41 pm 
mje wrote:
Tuchman is a very entertaining writer, but gets a lot of her facts wrong...


Touché :oops: Never-the-less I'm greatful for the Indian reference; I couldn't quite remember the exact story. I'm sure the Indian origin had a greater influence on the rest of the empire.

chrstjrn: Not that I'm looking for ways to complicate your idea, (In a world were more gadgets seems to be better, I'm leaning hard on KISS!!!) but a slight mod of carving a pointed piece of drift wood (providing drift wood is available) to fit in the ferrule to stick up through one of the tarp grommets would really be ideal. Then one could run tent lines to stakes, rocks, etc.

KvK


Top
  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:20 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
Actually, I think you're missing the point that the paddles are just balancing and act as a fulcrum (not exactly the right word) for the lines. You tension the whole thing so that having points on the bottom of the paddles is not necessary. In fact, you need to be able to make final adjustments to the position and angle of the paddles, so having points on the bottom wouldn't work.

As you alluded to, it is a KISS system. That's part of it's beauty. And it also works better than anything else! Technology is often just a way for someone to make money...

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:38 am 
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2005 9:02 pm
Posts: 1035
Location: Astoria, OR
Chris, I would not use my paddles as tarp supports in the kind of wind and weather we have at times out here on the northwest coast of North America. Sometimes the wind will lift the tarp away from the supports, and the supports go flying. My paddles are worth too much and too important for their intended use to subject them to bouncing around on rocks.

As far as KISS for tarps, I'm down with that -- a plain old square nylon waterproof tarp, with grommet holes (reinforced) set every couple feet, and a hundred feet of line is all I need on our beaches. I have never failed to find driftwood or downed wood in the adjacent forest suitable for bombproof tarpage, where I paddle.

OTOH, if I were paddling along a treeless, driftwood-free shoreline, I'd want some serious wind shelter with me for storm protection unless it were a totally benign area (where is such a place?). I've used some of the commercially-manufactured systems (Marmot, Kelty), and even the steel poles will go if the wind gets up high enough. In serious wind, you really need to get down low, and open tarps do not make it.

I also challenge you to withstand an evening in the serious black fly/deer fly/mosquito/no seeum - infested areas of North America without benefit of good bug netting. When each mouthful of dinner invites a short handful of insects into your mouth, some folks are literally driven mad by the bugs.

Where I paddle, head nets are standard gear, for setting up tents, tarps, shuffling camp gear, shagging water, etc., when high bug season is on. Away from the intense bug season, no head net is needed.

I think where a person paddles dictates their need for tarpage and bug protection.

_________________
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
--
Folbot Kodiak, Cooper, and Edisto; three hardshells; Mothership: Surf Scoter the Bartender; dinghy Little Blue Duck.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 12:25 am 
I sometimes wonder if some of the great explorers such as Lewis and Clark would find us all a bunch of softies with all of our comfort factors brought along... But then I wonder if maybe they didn't have all of the latest gadgetry and name brands along themselves. Even Ernest Shackleton had Barbour jackets on his Endurance adventure (pun intended). But perhaps they weren't so pricey back then and were quite simply the best equipment for the money.

Dave wrote:
Where I paddle, head nets are standard gear...


This may be a silly question, but could you (or would you want to) sleep in a head net?
When I camp, my tent is usually "plan b" as I generally just prefer to throw my bag on the ground. Now that old age is creeping up on me, :lol: I've added a sleeping pad. I've had a few nights woken up by sudden unexpected rain, but I'm fairly adept at setting up even something as cumbersome as my REI Quarter Dome, fast with just a torch in my mouth. This tent-less approach to camping is part of my KISS philosophy and has been an essential ingredient in some of my location photography.

Also, do you have any thoughts on bug tents? Or is this just another way of skirting around having a proper tent? -& therefore in defiance of the KISS philosophy?

Andreas


Top
  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tent
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:09 am 
forum fanatic

Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 9:54 pm
Posts: 26
Old post. But may be somebody like to camp in South Iberian Island. Every year tourists are dying here of been mistaken in high mountains cause of the extreme weather changements. You go during the day in shorts and need during the nigths winter sleeping-bag.
Too, sleeping on the ground in south woods is bad option, scorpions, hundred- feeds; this nasty species, orange, poison, bites hurtfully, about 20 cm, tropical and some type of black widows. Snakes. Better hammocks here around.

For extreme clima in high mountain lakes of Aragon, Sierra Nevada, day about 35 celsius, night -5/-10 down zero, may be snow, icy winds, everything posible, we have a Nigor WickyUp 2/3 persons. Can handle this alone in darkness in 5 minutes, meanwhile he takes care for the heavy works.Muy taller husband doesnt feel as in a cave. Relatively light. We use during summer in south only the mosquito inside part. Can see the stars. The dog has a tarp, or sleeps under the boat.

May be there are better options. Thats what we got here.

Sedna


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tent
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:23 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Posts: 1709
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)
It's a nice blast from the past seeing that thread. Sadly, most of those participants have left the forum.

_________________
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: '84 Hobie 16; early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group