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PostPosted: Thu May 24, 2018 10:16 am 
recent arrival

Joined: Thu May 24, 2018 8:45 am
Posts: 1
Location: South Burlington, VT 44.26.xx-73.13.xx
New to this forum, I have kayaked for many years, we are off on a van trip this summer and don't want to put out plastic boats up top. The plan is to find something seaworthy and easy to set up, and especially which paddles well. I have seen a review comparing these two boats, the innova is a much faster set up, but the hull material is not as heavy, but sounded reasonable.
Here are convenient links to the boats, I have read the long string in this forum on the Innova Seawave, maybe the way to go, but once I add the decking the cost goes up, but it is a long term investment, the usual back and forth conversation in my head which I suspect you all are familiar with!
Something decked is required. Any insights would be really appreciated!

https://www.airkayaks.com/innova-swing- ... dem-kayak/

https://www.airkayaks.com/advanced-elem ... -ae1007ds/
a great write up
http://www.focusonwild.com/Writing/AEvs ... nnova.html


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 12:26 pm 
forum fanatic

Joined: Wed May 11, 2011 10:28 am
Posts: 51
Hi dougg

In recent years there has been a slightly puzzling divergence in the fabric that Gumotex use in the manufacture of the US Innovas compared to their European boats. So, the Innova Swing in the article that you linked to was made from Gumotex's worst material Lite Pack. European Swings were never made from this, instead having Light Nitrilon (LN) from launch. 2017 (I think) saw the US range ditch Lite Pack entirely but, it seems, replacing it with LN (essentially Lite Pack with a rubber coating on the outside). In contrast, European models from 2018 onwards are full fat Nitrilon. According to the Boat People, LN is 500 denier compared to full Nitrilon's 1,200 with a tensile strength of 1100/900 N compared to 3000/3000 N. I don't know why they've dropped LN in Europe, but I'm guessing it's because it turned out to be not all that great. What I do know is that full Nitrilon is pretty impressively bombproof. Like most other owners of full-Nitrilon Gumotex/Innova boats, I've paddled mine into rocks and other sharp stuff and never punctured. This does add weight, of course, so the 12kg boat of the review is now 14.3kg. However (and I'm assuming you're in the US) if it were me, I would still order a Euro spec boat from somewhere like Boat Park in the Czech Republic if you decide to go with Innova/Gumotex. The Nitrilon tubes are the air-holding chambers. There's no bladder inside.

Almost all of the Advanced Elements boats (including the Advanced Frame) use the 'inner tube' construction method, meaning a tough (but I think not waterproof) outer and a PVC inner. The success and failure of this method rests on the quality of the inner bladders. Cheap bladders can fail - and often at the seams, making them near-impossible to repair. I don't know anything about AE boats, so can't tell you whether they are prone to this at all but it might be worth investigating

Sorry, doesn't really help with your choosing but just thought it might be useful-ish information

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