Folding Kayaks Forum

The user forum for FoldingKayaks.org
It is currently Tue Jul 16, 2019 1:41 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:34 am 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 654
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133108587945?ul_ref=https%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F0%252Fe11021.m43.l1120%252F7%253Feuid%253D518269b885f24306a6105b89485fafee%2526bu%253D44052798287%2526ut%253DRU%2526loc%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%25252Fulk%25252Fitm%25252F133108587945%2526sojTags%253Dbu%253Dbu%252Cut%253Dut%2526srcrot%253De11021.m43.l1120%2526rvr_id%253D0%2526rvr_ts%253De0fbf00316b0a9e81be51a89ffe69e08&ul_noapp=true

_________________
Simon

Feathercraft Wisper, First light 420, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (4sale),Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), Pakboats Quest 135, TRAK 2.0
Wanted:original Advanced Elements Air Fusion
Cape Falcon F1. Beth, Hobie AI


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 12:24 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:42 pm
Posts: 467
I saw this Simon and was tempted. I think it is probably a Tyne Prefect. I have one for which I made a Yost-style PVC skin a few years ago. It is one of my favourite folding kayaks, light and very quick to put together. At £10 it would certainly be worth taking a punt on for anyone of a slim-build looking for a good light kayak and willing to refurbish it. (Despite what the seller says about the skin only needing rewaterproofing, I can pretty much guarantee that the original skin will be a write off.)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:23 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 654
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
The skin does look pretty trashed in the photos....

Tyne also made an absolutely beautiful Eskimo style folding kayak. If you subscribe to the guy in the YouTube video below you’ll see some details of the construction technique, including expanding aluminium ribs! I don’t think I’ve ever seen or heard of such an intricate design. Unfortunately I’ve also never seen one come up for sale.
https://youtu.be/-wTdxwoQ6D0

_________________
Simon

Feathercraft Wisper, First light 420, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (4sale),Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), Pakboats Quest 135, TRAK 2.0
Wanted:original Advanced Elements Air Fusion
Cape Falcon F1. Beth, Hobie AI


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:15 am 
knight of the folding kayak realm

Joined: Wed Oct 07, 2009 6:42 pm
Posts: 467
That does look pretty cool. I hadn't come across that Tyne model before. Thanks.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:48 pm 
forum fanatic

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:36 pm
Posts: 76
Location: Germany
siravingmon wrote:
The skin does look pretty trashed in the photos....

Tyne also made an absolutely beautiful Eskimo style folding kayak. If you subscribe to the guy in the YouTube video below you’ll see some details of the construction technique, including expanding aluminium ribs! I don’t think I’ve ever seen or heard of such an intricate design. Unfortunately I’ve also never seen one come up for sale.
https://youtu.be/-wTdxwoQ6D0


The Tyne Eskimo style kayak is a simple replica of the "Wieser Eski" from the 1930s:

R.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:08 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 654
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Hi Rainer

Wow, your knowledge of the history of early folding kayaks is unparalleled. How on earth do you know all these things!? :-)

As the founder of Tyne kayaks was F. O. D. Hirschfeld, who emigrated from Germany to the UK in 1933, I’m wondering if it’s possible that he had something to do with the Wieser factory.

https://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Tyne_Folding_Boats

PS I’d love to know what your favourite eskimo style wooden framed folding kayak is, Rainer

_________________
Simon

Feathercraft Wisper, First light 420, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (4sale),Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), Pakboats Quest 135, TRAK 2.0
Wanted:original Advanced Elements Air Fusion
Cape Falcon F1. Beth, Hobie AI


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 6:22 am 
forum fanatic

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:36 pm
Posts: 76
Location: Germany
I think Hirschfeld and Franz Schulhof (aka Frank Sutton) had contact in England before WW2. Schulhof belonged to the "Eskimo Faltbootstaffel" at the Olympic Games in Berlin in 1936; Altogether 10 Eskimo-style-folding-boats: 5x "Wieser-Eski", 3x "Hart-Eski", 1x "Hartel Flossenaijuk" and 1x "Hammer Faltkajak".

More about Schulhof here:
https://www.geni.com/people/Franz-Frank ... 3428079914
or here:
https://www.ukseakayakguidebook.co.uk/t ... _inuit.htm


"PS I’d love to know what your favourite eskimo style wooden framed folding kayak is, Rainer"

I have no favorite, all Eskimo-style foalding kayaks are exceptional... :D

Rainer


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 12:58 am 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 654
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
RainerM wrote:
"PS I’d love to know what your favourite eskimo style wooden framed folding kayak is, Rainer"

I have no favorite, all Eskimo-style foalding kayaks are exceptional... :D

Rainer
:lol:

And naming them clockwise from the red and blue one, they are...? :-)

_________________
Simon

Feathercraft Wisper, First light 420, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (4sale),Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), Pakboats Quest 135, TRAK 2.0
Wanted:original Advanced Elements Air Fusion
Cape Falcon F1. Beth, Hobie AI


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 8:36 am 
forum fanatic

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:36 pm
Posts: 76
Location: Germany
OK, clockwise, starting with the blue / red folder:

"GESA-Drau" (new skin),
"GESA Drau" (original skin, this boat: http://faltbootbasteln.de/fbb-gesa-57-w ... l#gesadrau)
"Hartel Flossenaijuk" (new skin, ex. Arndt v. Rautenfeld: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arndt_von_Rautenfeld)
"Wieser-Eski" (new skin, coaming not original)
" Hammer-Faltkajak" (original skin, 1950th)
"Slanar-Delphin" (original skin: https://typen.faltboot.org/f2103_var.php?ID=1322)
"Möll" not GESA-Möll!: Homemade according to the original plans
"GESA Drau" (original skin)

Other...
"Hart-Eski": https://typen.faltboot.org/f2103_var.php?ID=533
"GESA-Möll" (modified according to the original plans: https://typen.faltboot.org/f2103_var.php?ID=371)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jul 14, 2019 10:06 am 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 654
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Thank you so much for the fascinating links.

I thought it was interesting to see the use of inclined compression struts fore and aft in the Hart, for example, to limit the increase in rocker due to the paddler's weight. I see the Gesa Drau doesn’t have these and have heard that they have a lot of rocker and are susceptible to weathercooking – I wonder if there’s any connection or whether it was just because they were designed to have a lot of rocker.

I’ve not seen anything similar on contemporary designs to the compression struts in the Hart, for example. Did any of the designers use tensions straps instead? Tom Yost experimented with these and the New Zealand first light kayaks use them.

I'd never heard of the single chine Slanar Delphin. The link you sent me says it only weighed 13.5 kg, which is remarkably light for a wooden framed folder. How on earth did they get it to be so light?

PS Did you make the Möll replica?

_________________
Simon

Feathercraft Wisper, First light 420, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (4sale),Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), Pakboats Quest 135, TRAK 2.0
Wanted:original Advanced Elements Air Fusion
Cape Falcon F1. Beth, Hobie AI


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2019 1:15 pm 
forum fanatic

Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:36 pm
Posts: 76
Location: Germany
The GESA Drau was also built on request with single or double struts. The installation of long cockpit struts instead of the short cockpit struts was also possible.
Drau and Möll was designed for use in whitewater. My GESA Drau has only short cockpit struts:

This Drau has diagonal struts front and rear and long cockpit struts:
https://typen.faltboot.org/f2103_var.php?ID=370

Watch the nice movie from the 1960s from minute 5:45 to minute 11:00 or more (2x GESA Drau, 1x GESA Möll and other Folding boats in WW).
http://kanutube.de/video/KCH-80er-Jahre ... 6f8285debe

The paddler with the Albaner-cap is Franz von Alber, who had the idea for Drau and Möll and has sent plans to interested self-builders.
BTW: Slanar probably constructed with Alber Drau and Möll and also built for Alber own Eskimo-style-folding-kayak, which is also still preserved.

R.
PS The Möll was built by a friend of mine years ago


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 6:08 am 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Fri Oct 07, 2011 1:51 pm
Posts: 654
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Thanks Rainer,

That's really interesting. I imagine the extra stiffness would be useful in whitewater- great to see such long boats on rapids too!

PS are the plans for the Drau still available do you know?

_________________
Simon

Feathercraft Wisper, First light 420, Fujita Alpina AL-1 400, Incept k40 (4sale),Nautiraid Narak 460, 416 & K1 (sold my 550), Pakboats Quest 135, TRAK 2.0
Wanted:original Advanced Elements Air Fusion
Cape Falcon F1. Beth, Hobie AI


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group