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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 10:53 am
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Location: Stepford, Tennessee
I'm going to look at an '03 Anniversary Edition Aleut this weekend. The seller's photos indicate two longeron keelstrips are loose at the bow-end and one coming loose at the stern end. Aquaseal? In '03 were the hulls hypalon or evalon (sp?) - does it make a difference?

Is it pretty easy to stick them back down and get them to stay stuck down? Nice-looking blue kayak with deck rigging, rudder, etc.

Thanks,

Chris


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:57 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
Posts: 131
A 2003 Aleut will have a Hypalon hull. Aquaseal adheres well to the deck but not to the hull.

Folbot sold self-adhesive Hypalon rub strips. My experience is that they come loose eventually. Reattaching, unless you remove and reattach the entire strip, likely will be an iterative process over the years.

Jack's Plastic Welding recommends flammable-type contact cement (Weldwood red label) for Hypalon-to-Hypalon repairs.

http://www.jpwinc.com/pages/reglue.html

A friend tried Jack's method to apply a patch, with good results. Trouble is, the rub strips will have remnant adhesive so I'm not sure if Jack's method works in this case.

I have used Clifton's Hypalon Cement, available from NRS, to apply Hypalon patches and to reattach rub strips. It works well enough without prepping the rub strip, though it is expensive and messy. The recommended prep is about the same as with Jack's method.

Three years ago another friend told me he had used Superglue gel for years on his Feathercraft. Since then I have been using Harbor Freight superglue gel, with pretty good results. It seems to stick for a couple of years. Given how cheap it is and how easy it is to use, this has become my preferred adhesive.

I clean the hull and rub strip with solvent, to the extent that I can. The rub strip adhesive attracts shell fragments and sand. I apply the glue then press on the area until the glue cures. Very hot sunny days seem to be best.

BTW, while bicycle inner tube material is not nearly as durable as Hypalon, I have been using it as patch material for covering nicks in the hull that go through to the fabric layer. Ann and I paddle and sail our Folbots in shallow water with oysters and barnacles, so those nicks are common.

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Ann and me
Folbots: GII x5, Yukon x3, Aleut x4
Feathercraft: Aeronaut
Klepper: AEI - Jonathan Waterman's boat
Hardshells x6


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 7:13 am 
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Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 10:53 am
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Location: Stepford, Tennessee
Hey RangerTim,

Thanks for the information. There's a Harbor Freight store nearby, so if I get the boat, I may initially try the gel-glue approach. Clifton's glue is pretty expensive.

If I get the Aleut, I'll post a few pictures.

Chris


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 8:13 am 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
Posts: 131
I find the Aleut to be a fine little craft. She tracks and turns well. She is stable enough to allow kicking back and draping legs over the washboards. She is seaworthy.

I own a 2003 anniversary edition Aleut. 2003 was the first year for aluminum, rather than polycarbonate, crossribs. In 2003 Folbot also went to machined, rather than cast, aluminum hinges. The edges of the machined hinges are sharp, so be careful assembling.

My wife and I have sailed Aleuts many miles and under many different conditions, equipped with the stock rudder and Balogh sail rigs. That said, the 2003 is the first year for plastic gudgeons. While the plastic gudgeon is fine for paddling, we much prefer the older inflexible aluminum gudgeon for sailing.

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Ann and me
Folbots: GII x5, Yukon x3, Aleut x4
Feathercraft: Aeronaut
Klepper: AEI - Jonathan Waterman's boat
Hardshells x6


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:37 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
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Location: Southeast Michigan
The problem with all superglues (cyanoacrylate) is that they catalyze into a brittle acrylic plastic. No flex. Fine for emergency repairs and going down the edge of a seam, but I wouldn't use them for larger areas. I'd also avoid the HF glue, which, in my experience, is hit-or-miss. Sometimes you get a good batch, sometimes you get a bad batch.

Another option for a patch is the various urethane glues found in hardware stores, like Shoe Goo and all their other "-Goo" variants.

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FoldingKayaks.org Webmaster


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 12:16 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
Posts: 131
I agree that superglue gel is not the perfect solution. My experience has been that it has been more cost- and time-effective than the alternatives I have tried. It is especially good for field repairs.

Yes, superglue gel becomes brittle. Yet it still adheres, at least it has for me. For a couple of years anyway. That is good enough for me, particularly when I think about how much time and money I spent dealing with Clifton's. I did not have good results with shoe goo, though I did not scuff the hull first. I have not yet had a bad batch of Harbor Freight superglue gel.

Now, if I had a quarter-sized hole in the hull, superglue gel would not be my first choice. I would probably use the method described by Jack's Plastic Welding. But for reattaching sections of rub strip or patching over nicks, I am happy to be back on the water after just a few minutes work.

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Ann and me
Folbots: GII x5, Yukon x3, Aleut x4
Feathercraft: Aeronaut
Klepper: AEI - Jonathan Waterman's boat
Hardshells x6


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 10:53 am
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Location: Stepford, Tennessee
Well, I just got back from Knoxville with the Aleut (it's still in the car). I had planned to low-ball the seller using the loose keel-strips to justify that to him. Overall the kayak is in such good condition and is the complete package with steering kit, intact field repair kit, four bow and stern bladders, perimeter grab line, deck bungies, factory spray deck with skirt-tunnel attachment and an NRS spraydeck/skirt, though, so I made a more reasonable offer - $500. The blue deck's a little faded, but that's not a big deal. The fellow I bought the kayak from got it on Ebay in 2012.

Regarding the keelstrips, the glue that's holding them on is "soft" and still gooey, like it never did set up properly. Odd, yes?

Photos after a while.

Chris


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 5:46 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
Posts: 131
Congratulations, Chris! I think you will enjoy the boat. I agree, a little fading is not a big deal. 303 Fabric Protectant will minimize additional fading, though it is not cheap.

The gooey rub strip adhesive is par for the course in my experience.

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Ann and me
Folbots: GII x5, Yukon x3, Aleut x4
Feathercraft: Aeronaut
Klepper: AEI - Jonathan Waterman's boat
Hardshells x6


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 10:53 am
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Location: Stepford, Tennessee
I picked up some of the super glue gel this evening - one of tomorrow's projects. Is it advisable to use toluene to clean up the gummy yet insufficiently sticky residue on the keelstrips and hullskin?

Until I get my photo software sorted out, I won't be able to post any photos.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2017 9:31 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
Posts: 131
I have used toluene, xylene, MEK, acetone, and rubbing alcohol to prep Folbot hulls. None seems to fully dissolve the rub strip adhesive. The superglue gel adheres nevertheless, at least for me. Note the moderator's caveat with regard to superglue in an earlier post in this thread.

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Ann and me
Folbots: GII x5, Yukon x3, Aleut x4
Feathercraft: Aeronaut
Klepper: AEI - Jonathan Waterman's boat
Hardshells x6


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:12 am 
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Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 10:53 am
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Location: Stepford, Tennessee
Yesterday afternoon, I paddled the Aleut for the first time. I found it a lot slower than my E68 and made maybe six miles? One factor to which that slowness is attributable is my paddling form - I haven't paddled regularly in several years. Another factor then, is that I'm out of shape for paddling.

Didn't use the rudder, edged cautiously to turn. I kept finding perimeter line D-rings with my paddle, but at least didn't tear up my fingernails. I remember people complaining about that from the old Folbot Forum, which I miss because it was an amazing resource and like this, a friendly and helpful group of people. I bungie-corded the seatback to the top of the rib behind it to keep it from flipping forward when I got in - another complain I remember from the Folbot Forum. My huge NRS bow and stern bags sized for my RZ96 completely filled the space forward and aft of the ribs.

So, the seating arrangement is comfortable enough - I'm probably never going to make a Dave Kruger closed-cell foam butt-formed seat for the Aleut - however, I didn't like the leaned-back posture it fosters. Feels like my gut sits like a bowl of lard on my abs (which is closer to true than it should be). I find it difficult to paddle while leaning back. I'll have to figure something out.

I was thinking about floating a river in McMinnville, Tennessee, tomorrow. Smooth Rapids does a ten dollar shuttle (http://smoothrapids.com/). But they're calling for thunderstorms. I got in yesterday afternoon before the thunderstorm hit.

My Flickr photostream's updated with Aleut pictures. I tried joining the FKO Flickr group, but it doesn't seem to have taken. Will reckeck the email link I got. Also did a blog post with a couple of pictures and some the information I've written here. Using IrfanView on this computer, still haven't figured out how to size pictures for this forum.

All in all, I like the Aleut, but I can see why it gets sailed - it's probably faster that way. Super stable, lightweight, unreal-big cockpit. Very comfortable small kayak.

Edit: I relied on a coworker's information for shuttle price earlier (five dollars), but called up on my way to the office and found out the launch fee for people doing their own shuttle is five, outfitter's fee is ten dollars launch+shuttle.


Last edited by Christov10 on Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:16 am 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
Posts: 131
My earlier praise of the Aleut did not include "speedy". Perhaps I should have mentioned the boat is a bit slow. Sorry about that. I enjoy that boat nevertheless. I can get her going quickly with some effort, but she does not have much glide.

I have gone to the one-foot-longer Yukon for the most part, only because my gear and me combine to reach and sometimes exceed the 250# Aleut weight rating. As a paddle craft not a sailboat, I prefer the Aleut as it turns better than the Yukon.

While I do not mind the stock seating position, I often place a chunk of 3" closed-cell foam beneath the seat. What I lose in stability I gain in ergonomics.

I tend to rest my knees against the coaming. A bit of padding there, velcro loop or ensolite, can be helpful.

I believe most people find the rudder unnecessary most of the time. I like it when paddling with a strong crosswind. While the boat points well without the rudder in a crosswind, the rudder cuts down on side slip. I also use the rudder when I paddle with a ZRE single-blade bent shaft paddle. Love that paddle.

_________________
Ann and me
Folbots: GII x5, Yukon x3, Aleut x4
Feathercraft: Aeronaut
Klepper: AEI - Jonathan Waterman's boat
Hardshells x6


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:33 pm 
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Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 10:53 am
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Location: Stepford, Tennessee
Who knows, maybe something faster will turn up. In the mean time, I need to practice contentment and maybe learn to slow down a bit.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 7:23 am 
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Joined: Wed May 06, 2015 10:53 am
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Location: Stepford, Tennessee
Last Saturday, I tried the Aleut out on a small river (Elk River) after a week of rain. No idea of the current's speed. I spent an hour or so paddling about 2.25 miles upstream using a greenland style paddle I bought for a narrower kayak. Both paddle and Aleut handled fine. I tried to remember everything I've ever read about using eddies to get upstream and crossing currents. GPS indicates my maximum speed heading upstream was a little over 3 mph, and coming back downstream paddling (but not exerting much effort) a little over 4 mph. Didn't use the rudder and didn't really feel like I needed it. I splashed a lot more water into the cockpit than when paddling it the week before on a lake.

Paddling seemed more efficient with the seatback's adjustment stretched tight across the cockpit and at times I sat a little forward of the seat bottom to paddle. That seemed to help with speed against the current in places. On the float back downstream, I relaxed a bit, experimented, found that I could, although it was not that comfortable, hang my legs over the coaming and drift.

I'm still happy with my purchase.


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