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PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2016 10:21 pm 
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Location: Southeast Nebraska
I would like to put a rudder on my '98 Greenland II. It didn't have one when we bought it last year and since using it, we've determined it would be nice to have for tracking on large lakes when it's windy and when we paddle off shore in Baja. Since Folbot is no more, we can't order a new one from them, but I did find one at Sail Your Kayak that they say is for a Folbot Greenland II (for a pretty pricey sum though). However even if we find a Folbot rudder, it looks like it needs the newer aluminum crossframes with brackets to insert the foot pedal post into. My kayak has the black plastic crossframes, so I don't know how I would install a new rudder kit. Does anyone know of an alternative rudder kit that would work in an old GII? Or does anyone have an older rudder for sale that's been used in a GII? Thanks for your help.

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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2016 10:06 am 
faltbootemeister
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mangoes wrote:
. . . I did find one at Sail Your Kayak that they say is for a Folbot Greenland II (for a pretty pricey sum though).

Part of the reason for the price is that they are selling you a Feathercraft rudder assembly, which is a very good one.
But, yeah, that's a pretty hefty price for a rudder that most GII sailors will tell you is too small.
The general consensus on the Folbot forum for years was that the older, large rudder from Folbot was the more desirable for sailing.
Also, it still uses the standard Folbot center-post setup for the foot pedals. That also was not the best for many Folbot owners (myself included).
If you have some metal fabrication skills, you can probably make your own. If not, eBay may be your best bet though it may be a long time before you find what you need.
In the meantime, read through these sites to give you an idea of what can be done.
http://jeeps-folbots-etc.co.nf/folbot/m ... s_gii.html
http://jeeps-folbots-etc.co.nf/folbot/m ... odiak.html


Quote:
. . . it looks like it needs the newer aluminum crossframes with brackets to insert the foot pedal post into. My kayak has the black plastic crossframes . . .

On the Kodiak page above, there is a link near the top for a Microsoft Word version that includes pictures at the end that apply to the older, polycarbonate crossframes.

If you want to go with the center-post system, I have two sets of the crossframe brackets for the aluminum crossframes. They could be modified to mount on the poly crossframes or used as a dimensional pattern for fabricating your own.

Attachment:
post_bracket.jpg


And, if you want to try to fab your own, I can send you pics and/or tracings of my two Folbot rudders. I have both the large and small versions.


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 10:25 am 
faltbootemeister
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The Sail Your Kayak kit is a drop-in for any GII with the Expedition option which includes the needed brackets for the center post.
http://sailyourkayak.com/folbot-25-rudd ... eenland-ii
If your GII is not an Expedition version, then you'll need to find and mount the brackets.
Jon (SYK) tells me he will be gearing up to make the needed brackets in the future.

If you want to do slider pedals at the sides of the frame as I and others have done, you can get this kit from SYK:
http://sailyourkayak.com/25-rudder-kit-for-hardshells
Then all you'll need to fabricate is a longer metal tube or plate to span between crossframes S3 and S4 to hold the 16" slider in the SYK kit. It's the long, thin, black plastic piece. On a GII, it's 21.5" between those two crossframes.
I've seen J-hooks used to clamp the pedal slider assembly to the crossframes.
If you're creative, there are several ways to do it and still be able to fold the frame.

For those with a Kodiak or Yukon / Edisto, this kit would be the thing:
http://sailyourkayak.com/folbot-20-rudder-kit
Note the picture shows the official Folbot foot bar. I'll find out from Jon if he still has any of those or if he's making the foot bar out of tubing like you see in the 25" rudder kit.

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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2016 3:24 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
Posts: 171
I have never used the sliding peg rudder control system on a Folbot, only the center post system. I'm happy with what I have, which includes what I call the Big D blade.

While it is expensive, Amazon still has one expedition kit for GII as of this writing. You would need to drill out your gudgeon tabs a bit as the center post system uses a larger rudder post than that of a 1998 boat. This new kit comes with a rectangular blade rather than the Big D. It would be fine for paddling but without modification may be inadequate for sailing if you think you might do that one day.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00O5VRD2 ... rds=Folbot

If it were me, I would buy a used GII that comes with a rudder. The extra boat could be for spare parts. In fact, the rudder from a Folbot Aleut, Yukon, Edisto, or Kodiak would work as well. The chance of finding just the rudder for sale used is next to nil.

BTW, Flatwater, I would love to have the bracket in the picture. I have an aluminum rib boat that came without one.

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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 10:40 am 
faltbootemeister
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OK I'm stonkered.
Amazon has a boat load (haha) of Folbot stuff.
1 each Kiawah and Yukon Expedition
2 each Cooper and Kodiak Expedition
Expedition kits, spray decks, rudder kits, etc.
Only one of most items.

Prices are pretty much list, but free shipping on everything I looked at.
Depending on how long it takes Eric to resurrect Folbot, this might be your last chance.

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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2016 6:23 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2015 4:10 pm
Posts: 171
Mangoes, I did not notice the first time around, but Amazon has one rudder kit still available, much cheaper than the entire expedition package.

http://www.amazon.com/Folbot-Rudder-Exp ... ANAWPSRQ6D

As Flatwater mentioned, you would need two retaining rings to hold the little mast to the rib that is just behind the forward seat. For plastic-ribbed boats like yours, Folbot used delrin, a white thermoplastic, to make the rings and the footbar. One ring gets attached to the center of the top rib section [drill your own holes for the screws], the other to the center of the bottom rib section.

For the foot bar, 2002 GIIs came with a one-hole version while the smaller boats came with a three-hole version. Later on it would appear that all boats have the three hole model. No matter; either will work.

I have attached a photo of the delrin ring and the foot bars, in case you need to fabricate.


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Folbots: Too many. It's embarrassing.
Feathercraft: Aeronaut
Klepper: AEI - Jonathan Waterman's boat
Hardshells x6


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PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2016 9:38 am 
faltbootemeister
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Location: west burbs of Chicago
Great pics Tim.
I only have the 3 hole type.
If anybody wants a tracing for fabricating your own, I would be happy to oblige.

I need to amend my previous post about Amazon stock.
I dug a little deeper and found this:
5 Coopers
4 Kiawahs
1 Yukon Expedition
2 Kodiak Expedition

Amazon also has a bunch of Expedition kits for those who would like to add to their existing boat.
3 for Yukon
8 for GII
5 for Kodiak
9 for Edisto - full deck
9 for Edisto - minideck
2 for Aleut

And they still have 2 rudder kits for the old frame style boats (Aleut, Yukon, Edisto, Kodiak, GII) at $230 which is a reasonable price.
Of course you'll still need to find or make the brackets to hold the center post to the crossframe

Amazon also has a bunch of spray decks for a variety of boats.
My years in the Folbot world have told me that almost no one uses the spray deck.
Folbots are so stable that, unless you like paddling BIG water, you won't ever need one.
I have them for all three of my boats and have not used them yet.

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2016 10:56 am 
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Location: Southeast Nebraska
Man, this has been a lot of information to ponder! Thank you Flatwater and RangerTim for all your input! First off, we had not known that the rudder system on a GII could be modified to have the footpedals on the sides rather than the center post position. That was some good information to study. After discussing this with my husband, I think we'd be better off with the pedals on the side. He's the one who paddles in the back and would be using the pedals, and that's where he prefers to put his feet. Also, our dog sits in the middle behind crossframe 4 where the center post would be, so putting the pedals to the sides would keep them out of her way.

It's interesting, Tim, that Amazon now has a Folbot rudder kit for expedition models. They had a Greenland II rudder kit for $222 that I ordered from them back in March (with a shipping date pending), but they ended up canceling that order in May due to lack of availability (which is when I posted here). I'm surprised that Amazon didn't then suggest this kit because they look the same in their photos. It appears this is where Folbot is selling out the rest of their stock?

With the information here on modifying for side pedals, I think that's the route we'll take. My husband is a carpenter and former industrial arts teacher, so he's pretty handy with tools and I think he will be able to do the necessary modifications. I doubt though that he'll have the time to get the rudder system installed before our upcoming summer trip. We leave in a couple of weeks. But we can get everything ordered and have it ready to work on when we get back. Thanks for all the information!

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