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 Post subject: Beam of Atlatl
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 12:47 pm 
knight of the folding kayak realm
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The other thread about the new Atlatl tensioning system got me looking at that boat again. There seem to be two web sites, http://www.atlyak.com and http://www.atlatl-kayaks.com. I assume the second one is just a US distributor?

The thing is that they give different figures for the beam of the boat - the Chinese one says 25in, the US one 22in - are they slightly different boats, or is one of them wrong?

It looks like a nice boat, especially if it really does go together in 10-15 minutes as advertised. Has anyone paddled one? If so, would you care to give a quick review?

Nohoval


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 Post subject: Re: Beam of Atlatl
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:45 pm 
>There seem to be two web sites, http://www.atlyak.com and http://www.atlatl-kayaks.com. I assume the second one is just a US distributor?

Looks like that. The first one has a kind of funny English...

>It looks like a nice boat, especially if it really does go together in 10-15 minutes as advertised.

Sewn-in cockpit rim and pre-assembled long members of the frame look like a good idea. I have some doubts as to the rib plastic fittings, quality of the hull (no keelstrips?), and reliabliity of the tensioing system. With those tensioning loops and proper centering of the frame it's hard to imagine 10 minutes. Some people have incredible hands dexterity in assembling, who knows...

I wonder, what they meant by "unmatched weight to performance ratio". 33 lbs (net weight, mind you), and 12 ft. Feathercraft Kahuna is 35 lbs net, 15 ft. Folbot Cooper - 32 lbs net, 16.6 ft. Does it suppose to mean that Atlatl has higher hull speed than Cooper, or better stability than Kahuna?


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 Post subject: Re: Beam of Atlatl
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 5:36 am 
lord high faltbotmeister
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Alm wrote:
I wonder, what they meant by "unmatched weight to performance ratio". 33 lbs (net weight, mind you), and 12 ft. Feathercraft Kahuna is 35 lbs net, 15 ft. Folbot Cooper - 32 lbs net, 16.6 ft. Does it suppose to mean that Atlatl has higher hull speed than Cooper, or better stability than Kahuna?


I wish there was more standardisation about what is meant by "net weight". I weighed a Cooper and found it to be 36.5 lbs. That included seat and footrests - they are standard parts of the boat, for heaven's sake. But not the boat bag or anything else. While I agree that the Atlatl has rivals, it's at least possible that their "33lbs" is a more honest weight than some others.
Mary

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2005 2:02 pm 
>I wish there was more standardisation about what is meant by "net weight". I weighed a Cooper and found it to be 36.5 lbs. That included seat and footrests

I have a bad luck with what they call a "net weight". All my boats with a seat only are heavier than officially stated in specs. 2 of them were 10-15% heavier, and one has somehow managed to exceed the specified weight by 50% a few years ago...

No, I'm really intrigued with the "weight to performance ratio". I can understand such an approach with a power boat (heavier engine, more power etc), or with an ice-breaker (probably, the heavier it is, the better, TAD), - but how it can be defined in the case of a kayak?

Alex


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 Post subject: Interesting
PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:55 am 
Since the weight of the paddler and gear is likely to vary more and be more controllable than the 1-2 lbs difference in weight, I am more concerned with durability and ease of setup. Not that weight is not a factor, but unless you are truly back packing the boat, you probably won't notice. FYI, a pint of water is 1 lb.
Just my 4 cents worth (inflation)


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 Post subject: Atlatl experience
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 2:41 pm 
I bought the Atlatl because it is by far the cheapest 'real' folder available here in Europe (not counting the Puffins). Only the Nautiraid Raid 325 comes close, the Fujita AL400 already costs one third more. I have used it only a few times until now, and have no earlier kayaking experience (neither folding nor hard shell), so I don't know what my impressions are worth, but here goes.

It does not go together in 10 to 15 minutes, closer to 25/30. The pulley system needs some getting used to, once you get the feeling for it, it works quite well. Problem with it is that while the attachment of the rope pulling the pulley is located underneath the rear deck support bar, the pulley necessarily needs to go on top of it. This means the rope gets twisted a bit and you can't pull on it straight. Sometimes this is quite awkward and it often makes the rope get stuck between the pulley and the pulley wheel. The frame goes together easily as the longerons are all shock corded and only need four bolts at the bow. The plastic C-pieces on the cross ribs do not look very solid and I sometimes find the deck supporting bars not exactly aligned with their C-pieces, making for unwanted pressure that in the end may result in wear on the C-pieces. The hull seems to be well made, with carefull stitching.

I do have some comments on quality. The Atlatl arrived with one defective air valve, the little yellow string used to pulley the skin on the frame snapped in two the second time I had the boat out, one of the strings keeping the ends of the air sponsons in place gave up when taking the boat out the first time, the tube of one of the sponsons disconnected from the sponson the second time I went out. All these things are only minor nuisances, and very easily repaired, so I don't mind very much, but they should not exist on a new boat, especially after you paid 1000 euro for it.

In the water (sunny and mostly calm seas until now) the Atlatl goes well, tracks nicely I think, but it does tend to turn into the waves a bit, making you to have to use quite some correcting strokes. Anyway, the few times I took it out I had loads and loads of fun. I'll try to get together a more detailed report some time.

Lieven


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 Post subject: Re: Beam of Atlatl
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 4:19 pm 
Alm wrote:
I wonder, what they meant by "unmatched weight to performance ratio". 33 lbs (net weight, mind you), and 12 ft. Feathercraft Kahuna is 35 lbs net, 15 ft. Folbot Cooper - 32 lbs net, 16.6 ft. Does it suppose to mean that Atlatl has higher hull speed than Cooper, or better stability than Kahuna?


I think the phrase is meaningless. Think of the numerous "New and improved.." or "The original and still the best..." or "The best tasting bacon in the world.." that marketing departments put out.

Performance of a kayak is as difficult to measure as the taste of bacon.

-cv


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 Post subject: Re: Atlatl experience
PostPosted: Tue May 31, 2005 10:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1727
Location: Southeast Michigan
lievenloots wrote:
.... The pulley system needs some getting used to, once you get the feeling for it, it works quite well. Problem with it is that while the attachment of the rope pulling the pulley is located underneath the rear deck support bar, the pulley necessarily needs to go on top of it. This means the rope gets twisted a bit and you can't pull on it straight. Sometimes this is quite awkward and it often makes the rope get stuck between the pulley and the pulley wheel. ...

Lieven


Apparantly the latest version of the Atlatl has given up on the pulley system, and replaced it with a direct copy of the Folbot Cooper screw jack.


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 Post subject: Re: Beam of Atlatl
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:04 am 
nohoval_turrets wrote:
The other thread about the new Atlatl tensioning system got me looking at that boat again. There seem to be two web sites, http://www.atlyak.com and http://www.atlatl-kayaks.com. I assume the second one is just a US distributor?

The thing is that they give different figures for the beam of the boat - the Chinese one says 25in, the US one 22in - are they slightly different boats, or is one of them wrong?

It looks like a nice boat, especially if it really does go together in 10-15 minutes as advertised. Has anyone paddled one? If so, would you care to give a quick review?

Nohoval


It's long time not visit this place.
Please let me introduce myself first. My name is Ning Wang. I and my team design and produce folding kayak in China as Atlatl, U-Atlatl and AtlYak's manufacturer. Our company's name is Boatory Corp. http://www.atlyak.com is our official website, [section deleted]

Please excuse me for my poor Chinglish (Chinese-English), it is not as good as my Chinese. 8-)
If someone wants to find one friend in China, or just need some help from a chinese, I am one of your choice though I am a very common man.

Here, please let me explain some question about the Beam of Atlatl.
Real official Atlatl's beam is 25", not 22".

Just one year before we produced out Official Atlatl, we had make out 13 boats with name "Atlatl" and packaged in light blue backpack.
I carry one to US and want to show it in the Outdoor Retailer Show in Salt Lake City. But when I was there, I found one thing, one very important thing.
Compare with other's folding kayak, my boat has too many problems. Slow, deck cloth is thin too much, the backpack is too long to carry, etc.

When leave the show and live one friends' house in a farm near Austin, Mr. Horehn also arrived there from NY.
Ralph, Mark and I test the boat in a little river near the farm, and find there are too many problems in that model.
"It is not worth for sale at all" is the "only" and "real" sentence in my mind.
At that time, 12 that models already be airmail to there. Mark drives his SUV carry them back, his wife and I together with the boats in the SUV.
Before I was in US, I want to make Mark as distributor in South of US, and Ralph as distributor in North of US.

When I was backed China again. After a deep consider, I sent a mail to Mark and ask him sell those 12 boats in http://www.Ebay.com as dust, and announce that none of those boat has after service. Anyway, those dust still worth some money.[section deleted]

So, in the market there are two kind of Atlatl, one is real, and one is not the official Atlatl, both be designed and produced by our team. All of my team is Chinese. Before real official Atlatl been born, our team spent 7 years and about one million Yuan (worth over 100 thousand US dollars), also make me fly around the globe three times. Sorry for make public feel puzzle. If I can visit 2002 again like some scene in SF movie, I know what I should do with those boats.

BTW: I still store all of mails between everyone in above story. Those mails remind me what had been happened.

[Webmaster's note: I have edited out a small section of this post that refers to a past business relationship that would be the subject of contention if left in. I removed these comments in keeping with the general rules for posting outlined in the Introduction section.]


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 Post subject: Re: Beam of Atlatl
PostPosted: Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:20 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
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Posts: 1229
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Nihou

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 Post subject: Re: Beam of Atlatl
PostPosted: Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:28 am 
Nihao.
It is so nice to heard "Nihou" here.
I found you already have so many kayaks, :o also find you had write so many posts here. :shock:

With honest word, when I was here, I was nervous.
But one word "Nihou" makes me feel so warm.
Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Beam of Atlatl
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2008 5:30 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister
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Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2007 6:30 pm
Posts: 681
Location: Stone Mountain, Ga. U.S.A.
Boatory Corp wrote:
Nihao.
It is so nice to heard "Nihou" here.
I found you already have so many kayaks, :o also find you had write so many posts here. :shock:

With honest word, when I was here, I was nervous.
But one word "Nihou" makes me feel so warm.
Thank you.


I too am familiar with Nihao. My wife taught English in Beijing two years ago. She said she met many friends there and was very happy with her work.

We welcome the success of your product. We are always looking for good boats on this forum.

Xia Xia & Zai Jian,
Chris

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 Post subject: Re: Beam of Atlatl
PostPosted: Mon Aug 25, 2008 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 1:44 am
Posts: 13
Location: Chicago
Hi, Ning Wang. I am so proud that it is a folding kayak manufacturer from my own people. I am not sure that Chinese characters can be shown on this website, so I write my reply in English.

I like kayaking so much and finished making a few folding kayak according the manual of Tom Yost (His legend website is http://www.yostwerks.com). Compared with his design, I verily appreciate your simple design and its fast setup time. The review of the performance of your boat is mostly positive. If I had not make these kayaks, I must buy a Atlatl.

What is a pity that kayaking still is not familiar with most people in China. Most people like me do not have space to store a kayak, or cannot afford the price of a kayak, or don't own a car to transport a kayak. Folding kayak is a very good solution to these problems. I hope Olympic would help promote this sport to China, and let this sport to be more popular in China, and more people would buy your kayak consequently.

Other thoughts:
A kayak less than 13 ft is a bit too short for me. Do you consider to make a longer model?
Concerning the main page of your website, the texts on the left hand side do not show up (at least in my computer, with Firefox). With regard to the gallery, the little boy, who was accompanied with his father, seems so nervous and grasped the boat as if the boat was going to be capsized. How about taking some pictures with someone surf your boat in a wavy sea, roll your boat, or some kind of circumnavigation? I think this may attract more people to buy your kayak.

Zhu nin sheng yi yue zuo yue hao!


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