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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:41 pm 
I just dismantled my K1 after paddling it for the first time last weekend and I noticed a bend in the riveted-in joining tube on the end tube of the keel bar on the stern section. I can't be sure but I don't remember it being there when I assembled the boat. The question is, is that bend supposed to be there or should it be be a straight join?


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 30, 2008 5:51 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister
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Post a picture so we can look at it.

Chris

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"No matter where you go, there you are."

Wilderness Systems Cape Horn 150


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:32 am 
Image Rivet facing away from the skin - looks bad

Image Rivet facing skin looks a bit better

Image

Having taken the pictures I think the insert is probably bent out of shape - but I know the Khatsalano has a deliberately bent section and I don't want to replace this insert on the K1 with a straight piece if it is supposed to be like it is in the pictures.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:22 am 
lord high faltbotmeister
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I would send these pictures to Theresa at Feathercraft ( info@feathercraft.com ) and see what they recommend. They recently sent me a new Delrin block ( the plastic block the rib fits into ) that had a crack in it. They also sent new ss and aluminum rivets to fasten it with. I had a rivet gun and it was easy to drill out the old rivets and replace the block. You might need a new fitting.

Good luck,
Chris

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"No matter where you go, there you are."

Wilderness Systems Cape Horn 150


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:15 pm 
Quote:
Having taken the pictures I think the insert is probably bent out of shape - but I know the Khatsalano has a deliberately bent section and I don't want to replace this insert on the K1 with a straight piece if it is supposed to be like it is in the pictures.

Send it to Theresa, but I think that short inner tubes are supposed to be straight. There is one bent section on my Kahuna (foredeck stringer), but it is the actual long tube that is bent - not the short riveted insert. Replacing the short inserts is easy with rivet tool (cheap $15 version will do). I replaced some rivets, but you may ask FC to send you their good quality rivets with short insert tubes. Household rivets from Home Depot are not good - it will work, but will wear off sooner. Make sure you put in place the washer with bungee cord knot behind the rivet before you gun it in. Or send the whole sub-assembly to FC and let them do it all.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 4:12 am 
Thanks for your good advice. Theresa's response was:
Quote:
We don't pre-bend the inserts on
the K1. We do on some of the inserts
on the Khats; the tension from the
skin wants the frame to take its shape.

For your frame, the slight bend on
the insert is allowing the frame
to take the curve of the skin.
It's certainly nothing to be
concerned about.


I'm glad I didn't embark on an unnecessary repair.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 5:51 pm 
Possible... Some skins are tighter than other. As they told me a while ago, they try to err on the smaller side when making skins. When it's too long lengthwise, you still have 1 or 2 holes in expansion tubes to correct it. But when it's loose crosswise, there is nothing you can do. If you bought it new and those bends appeared after the first paddle, your skin must've been under enormous stress, and you should've gone one hole shorter when expanding the tubes. When the Manual says "expand to the 3rd hole" or "2nd hole", this is a guidance, not a dogma.

You may still have to replace faulty rivets if there are such - bad looking, loose and ready to go.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:51 am 
I'll see how it goes. I've replaced inserts before (seized ones on a badly maintained f/c) and still have the necessary tools and materials.

It is a used boat. I think other possible causes are carrying it by the ends, loaded with day trip gear, for a quarter of a mile or over-tightening roof rack straps.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:18 pm 
Quote:
Theresa's response was:

For your frame, the slight bend on the insert is allowing the frame to take the curve of the skin.
It's certainly nothing to be concerned about.


I disagree with Theresa's response, regardless of whether this is the official FC position or not. There is damage to the frame and if it's "normal" then there is a design flaw. If it were me, I'd replace the insert and try again. In addition, I'd use more than one rivet as seen in your pics. To remove the existing rivet, just drill it out with a small bit being careful not to enlarge the existing rivet hole.

Below are 6 pages of instructions about cutting , drilling, and riveting inserts.

http://yostwerks.com/Frame5.html

Regards,

Tom


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 5:12 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister
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Location: Stone Mountain, Ga. U.S.A.
Tom might be right. No need to skimp in Rivets. I do know from experience in replacing them that Feathercraft use specialized rivets on most fittings, especially the K-1. Usually they use one Aluminum and one Stainless Steel at critical joints. if you are concerned about your particular problem area, have them send you the replacement insert and rivets.

If you have access to the correct materials and shop skills, then I would do as Tom says. He has a lot of well thought out designs at his site. Just remember, the basic Feathercraft K-1 design is a tough well made product. Like mine, your used boat may have had some abuse.

Good luck,
Chris

_________________
"No matter where you go, there you are."

Wilderness Systems Cape Horn 150


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 05, 2008 6:35 pm 
Tom's experience is not to be underestimated. FC has over 25 years of experience with these frames (K1 was their first or one of the first models), but all commercial manufacturers have to consider expenses, and sometimes skimp on what they shouldn't have. Theresa's statement is definitely based on statistics - some frames (or in some skins) could acquire these bends in inserts as a result of too tight skin or too zealous expanding the tubes as long (i.e. as tight) as possible and beyond. I doubt that tight roofrack straps, some bumps on the road, in combination with meager 15-20 lbs of daypaddle gear could've caused this - but rolling on the cart or carrying it by 2 men with full load of multiday gear, food and water, 100 lbs or more, could do this. (Not too smart, I would say - folders should not be carried ashore with full load, none of them).

It still seems odd to me that short inserts got bent, rather than long tubes. In any event, you should check all the rivets carefully - those at bent inserts could've loosen more than others (as a result of more stress there). I don't know whether you should add a 2nd rivet to all these inserts - they are very short, and too many holes at short spacing isn't good either (here I would trust Tom's opinion more than Theresa's, as he isn't bound by commercial considerations).


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