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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:59 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1764
Location: Southeast Michigan
If the deck is good, but the hull is cracked, Long Haul can sew a new hypalon hull onto your deck. This runs about half the cost of a complete skin. As for questions about Quattro skins- it's not an option to bother with unless you're hauling a lot of heavy gear- like, several hundred pounds.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:23 pm 
I think the boat is a late 1950's AEII that has been freeze dried for the last 50 years.
The top arms of the open ribs were changed to aluminum in the 60's and until the mid 50's the rear pieces of the coaming were inserted into an aluminum tubr like extension on the front boards. The hull, which is rubber, Hypalon being a later introduction on Kleppers, looks amazingly supple but looks can be decieving. In my opinion the old frame is much more elegant and a bit lighter than the newer ones. If the rubber rod holders still hold the rods then the boat is a wonder worthy of the Guinness book of records.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:41 pm 
Some of you have amazing eyes for the details. Many thanks for the info. I'm a little nervous about the older rubber skins... even if they are in great shape, I do wonder how long they will last given their age.

I'm also in a bit of dilemma. After looking off-and-on again for a few months, I'm spoiled for choice as I've tracked down quite a few boats with a few hundred kms:
- This one for $1000 or so (includes sail kit)
- A similar 1970s boat for $1500 or so (includes sail kit).
- A 1990s with an expedition hull for $3000 or so.
- A late 1990s quattro for $3800 or so.
The last two are listed as being in near-perfect shape.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:07 pm 
grawil wrote:
- This one for $1000 or so (includes sail kit)
- A similar 1970s boat for $1500 or so (includes sail kit).
- A 1990s with an expedition hull for $3000 or so.
- A late 1990s quattro for $3800 or so.
The last two are listed as being in near-perfect shape.

Then just buy one of the last two, if they are near-perfect. Why saving $1500 on something that in a few years might need a new hull that costs $2000? Again, and after Mike said the same - if you don't need the Quattro (most people don't), you won't like it. This is not a car, - the pricier the better. This is a man-propelled vessel, and it will take you a lot to propel something like Quattro. Will you be sailing it or not - God knows, and even with those sails you have to rely on your muscles quite often, because winds almost never blow when and where you want them to.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:24 pm 
faltbootemeister
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 6:38 am
Posts: 192
Location: NW Ohio
If you are looking at that price range and can afford boats that go for close to $4K I say go for one of those. I don't know why you want a quattro (and that is, of course, entirely your business), but I would think that the 90's AE2 with the expedition hull would serve you well. My circa 1993 AE2 (base model) has served me very well over the years, but, then again, I've never used it on a major expedition, or even camped out of it. In other words you should really consider if a base 1990s vintage AE2 is really all you need. They are pretty cheap (< $1,500) and are the commonest Klepper out there. You are guaranteed a hypalon hull that is probably in great shape.

Now, if you need the ability to change the shape of the hull, or if you just like the caché of having the quattro (and price is no object) then you should go with that - how can you go wrong? It is, after all, the top of the line.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:31 pm 
Quattro is their "top of the line" mostly in terms of weight and price. I think. Leaving aside the added sponsons (which very few people would ever need), the only "luxury" features are swivel backrest (not sure how useful is this), and different shape of seat - compared to a regular "classic" or "expedition" AEII.

Agreed that "classic" hulls might work well for many people, being cheaper and lighter than "expedition" version. The only difference between the two is that on "classic" the hull protection strips are optional, and on "exp" - standard. (Klepper website doesn't say, but I read somewhere that "exp" also has slightly thicker hypalon. Apparently - just slightly, as the weight difference 2.7 kg is about the right weight for strips alone). I prefer having more margins of durability and therefore - hull strips, on any hull material, but my trips with folders are multiday wilderness, always heavily loaded.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 9:22 am 
Did a little more reading about the quattro hulls this weekend and figure that they aren't really something I'm interested in. I've being working hard to lighten and compact my backpacking/camping gear over the years which should help with kayaking as well. I was mostly curious to know whether the frames of the 'quattro' and 'expedition' AEII were the same and whether the quattro hull offered any real-world advantages. The plan is to do some day-tripping with the kayak in Ontario and a few multi-day trips each year. We're also planning to do a longer (10-12 day) trip on the East coast next year. Both my wife and I are experienced paddlers and quite enjoy heading out in rough weather. We're buying a Klepper so we can bring our toddler along for the ride.

I'm still weighting the merits/costs of an older Klepper with more maintenance (and possibly a rubber hull) versus a newer one that is ready to go. Do the older boats (or classic II) have bow/stern handles? If not, how do you lift them in and out of the water from a dock?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:23 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1136
Location: isles of scilly UK
The older boats don,t have handles so it might be awkward using a dock and i have never put my Klepper in from a dock which i avoid, if you ever head north in Ontario we might be able to meet .


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:06 pm 
How much were they asking for it?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:10 pm 
john allsop wrote:
The older boats don,t have handles so it might be awkward using a dock and i have never put my Klepper in from a dock which i avoid


Great photo. Seems you are spoiled for choice with folders ;)

I assume the one on the right (without deck lines) is the oldest boat. I imagine the weight would make them difficult to put in from a dock. Nevertheless, my in-laws have a cottage on a lake/river and the only water access if via a dock.

john allsop wrote:
if you ever head north in Ontario we might be able to meet .


For the past two years I've been wanting to do a backpacking trip in Lake Superior park. Alas, it just hasn't happened yet. How's the coast for paddling from Pukaskwa to Lake Superior park?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:46 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1764
Location: Southeast Michigan
As long as you have some sort of attachment point at the bow and stern (not found on all Kleppers) you can add a simple toggle handle- Mark Ekhart at Long Haul has these, or you can make your own. An even simpler handle would be a loop of tubular nylon webbing sew or tied in a loop.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 5:48 pm 
faltbootemeister
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 6:38 am
Posts: 192
Location: NW Ohio
C'mon guys - you are making mountains out of mole hills! :lol:

My AE2 is basic without any handles, life-lines, or anything extra. 90% of the time I launch from a dock. Attach lines to the rings at the bow/stern (never seen one without any rings sewn to the deck at the bow and stern - guess that is possible though). Hold on to the bow line and slide the stern into the water while holding on to the coaming. Then just lift the bow (using the line) into the water. Tie lines to cleats/rings on dock while you pack, install sail, drink beer ... etc.

In fact I think that is the best way to launch from a dock. Even the boat I have with straps (Klepper T9) at the stern and bow is launched from dock like this. No need to kneel on the dock and possibly lose balance and end up in the drink - yes I can be a klutz.

Grawil: The AE2 is great for traveling with family. My son was only 3-mos old when I paddled with him and the wife over to a friend's cottage near Parry Sound.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2009 6:24 pm 
BarryM wrote:
Grawil: The AE2 is great for traveling with family. My son was only 3-mos old when I paddled with him and the wife over to a friend's cottage near Parry Sound.


Thanks for your continued input Barry. That sounds like a reasonable system to try. The new family is exactly what has precipitated the Klepper purchase; I just cannot see giving up the canoeing and kayaking while the kids grow into their own boats.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 10:24 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 1136
Location: isles of scilly UK
Thanks for the dock launch Barry, i always think of the dock being 5 or 6 feet above the water as they are on my local lake. My photos, the klepper with the deck lines is a replacment klepper hull on a 30 year old frame, the older klepper is i belive over 40 years old, gets used 2or 3 times a year. The coastal route from Pukaskwa National Park to Michipicoten Harbour (WAWA), A good booklet can be obtained from the Friends Of Pukaskwa, General Delivery, Heron Bay, Ontario p0t 1r0 telephone (807)229 0801 Ext 233 it not only gives the route but a good set of maps, i have also printed a set of maps from my computer soft map program, as regards walking the footpath all food and supplies must be carried (same for the paddling route) as there are no places to re-stock in fact it,s best to take all supplies to the park. The park web site may be helpfull as well as looking at Naturally Superior Adventures (http://www.naturallysuperior.com) It is possible to paddle and sail all along the north shore from Thunder Bay to Sault St Marie, i particularly like the Rossport area, although i am less than 100 km from Pukaskwa for personal reasons i am unable to be away for more than day trips. PS remember bug spray don,t worry about bears it,s the tiny critters that can eat you, the best defence being covered up.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:48 pm 
faltbootemeister
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Joined: Sat May 12, 2007 6:38 am
Posts: 192
Location: NW Ohio
Hello John,

I had the whole family vacationing near Lake Superior PP last Summer. We stayed at a nice place on Batchawana Bay (Hotel Salzburger Hof) and drove up to Wawa and back. The area is truly stunning. Some day soon I'd like to go back with a kayak but it is a little too far for a weekend trip for me so it might be next summer at the earliest. Of course if I do that I'd probably continue on to Lake Nipigon which has been a goal for a few years now.

We had a nice breeze out of the west while lazing on the beach at Old WOman Bay so didn't notice the mossies.

Cheers,

Barry

PS: sorry about hi-jacking the original post!

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