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Re: My 'new' old T9

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:09 am
by DLee
Mario that boat looks fantastic!

Hannes, yours as well! Never seen an orange hull before. Love those shots going through the reeds. Reminds me of the Napa Valley Sloughs out in California. Same deal. We could have 30 mile winds blowing on the bay and the little passage ways were glass calm.

It's great to see the T9's in discussion again. Makes me think I should tinker on getting mine back in order this winter. Boy do I wish I could afford one of those hulls from Markus.

Great stuff guys.

I like your idea of removing the ribs Hannes. I've had to tie my hull to a tree and yank like crazy. My old rubber is sticky on top of it being a tight fit so I started putting an old klepper AEII deck (front and rear ~ seperated) under the bow and stern pieces of the T9... that has helped. I actually tie these canvas pieces to the frame as close to the ends as possible - as I remember it helped a lot. But again... I have an original rubber hull which actually adheres itself to the frame. I didn't even realize other T9 owners had issue with getting their frames out of the boats.

Great stuff, keep it coming.


Re: My 'new' old T9

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 2:46 am
by dschin
my skin wasn't build by markus. it was build from a violin-builder there in vienna/austria
he is a prof in T9. at the moment he and a guy from serbia are developing a lightweigthT9 made of laminated bamboo and sitka. goal: less than 16 kg. i'm looking forward.

the orange skin was my idea. i wanna go to greece islandjumping and so it is better to be seen *l*.
also the fixings for a countertop to install a pacific sail near the bow.
this position near the bow.was found by experiment because the T9 is weather helm in windy conditions and a rudder will slow down

a hint: store heavy loads to the bow. the T9 will be safier and faster

Re: My 'new' old T9

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 7:02 am
by BarryM
So none of you guys use talcum powder to help with disassembly of your T9s? Here is a link to Klepper's stuff, but I just get mine from the local store. ... s/10162003

Also, please note from the product description:

"Das Bootspuder wird Innen auf der Bootshaut dünn verteilt und verhindert das Zusammenkleben von Haut auf Haut oder Haut auf Gerüst."

Translation: The powder is applied in a thin layer on the inside of the skin and prevents the skin from sticking to itself or to keep the skin from sticking to the frame.

I got the first bottle of this stuff when I received my AE2 (the only boat I ever bought new), but I started using talcum powder when I ran out of the Klepper powder. Reapply as needed. Really this stuff works very well.


Re: My 'new' old T9

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:06 pm
by RainerM
BarryM wrote:So none of you guys use talcum powder to help with disassembly of your T9s?

The use of talcum powder is not necessary when using "modern" materials (Hypalon, CSM, PVC and TPU)

A few years before I have made a new skin for a T9 in beige (cotton) / black (PVC fabric, the same that Pouch used) with a wine-red piping: ... 9/single_0

It is easy to disassemble these T9 without using talcum...

But the best skins in the world are made by Markus Heise!


@Hannes: Herzliche Grüße nach Wien,
von Rainer aus KA

Re: My 'new' old T9

Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:39 pm
by mariodosreis
Well, my new Heise TPU skin sure sticks to the frame really hard! I sent Markus Heise a message about this to see what he says.

Nice pics by the way!


Re: My 'new' old T9

Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:56 am
by dschin
Hi Rainer, nice to meet you here - i'm very happy with my T9 - special under rough conditions

my T9-updates (the boat was bought last spring with a terrible skin):
*new pvc-skin
*countertop for a pacific-sail between frame 1 & 2 - no strip around the hull.
*turned rudderblade to get a deep rudder
*thermarest between frame 3 and 5 because I like barefoot and so I don't need shoes on in the kayak
*remove the standard seat (backrest and seat) and use a 15 cm thick motorboatseat made of kapok. this seat can also be used as pad in the tent. it is very comfortable

this winter the weight of the wooden part will be reduced

Re: My 'new' old T9

Posted: Sat Nov 08, 2014 12:43 am
by DLee
Hannes, I'd like to see a closer picture of your sail mount if you have one. So it sounds like there's a bit of T9 following in Wien (Vienna), any interesting forums or blogs you can show us?

I shortened a full on sleeping pad just a little bit to make the interior of the T9 very comfortable. In the picture below I am using a Long Haul Comfort Seat for it's backrest only and sitting on the pad on top of the deck. I think the Long Haul Sling Seat might be a very nice addition to the boat as the seat back would be similar to the Comfort seat seen here and there would be some cushioning to sit on without the rise (elevation) of the Comfort Seat.


I've sailed the T9 with the Kayaksailer and found it to be a good sailer. Recently I discovered that loose rubber on the stern piece was ballooning out while I paddled and sailed. So it seems I always had a bit of onboard drogue effect happening while out on the water... not so bad with the rudder but made the boat impossible to steer without. Unfortunately I had some other mechanical malfunctions which have taken the boat out of service after I discovered and mostly fixed this ballooning problem.

You can see some more of my T9 pics here in this gallery: ... /i-bHRN7jt

The Hobie sidekicks work very well with this Kayaksailer rig - and although more experimentation is necessary I think the Harmony sponson system might even be better. Sailing the KS without some kind of outrigger with the T9 eventually resulted in a capsize each time I tried it.


With your sail mount up front, you might want to consider the Flat Earth Sails as well. They might give you better upwind sailing capability than the Pacific Action... it also seems to take up less space than the KS. I believe Flat Earth mounts their sail in a similar fashion to what you might have for the PA.

You might have noticed that I also replaced the wire cable for the rudder system with high end sailing line (a recommendation from another member here), I love that improvement. You can see the new line in the padded cockpit picture. The old cable in the Harmony picture.


Re: My 'new' old T9

Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 7:03 pm
by mariodosreis
This is the reply I got from Heise on the issue of removing the frame from the skin:
To remove the frame, I clap with the flat hands on the sides preferably between the cross members. This way the skin will be loosened and the frame can be removed by one hard pull. If this will not work, use little talcum powder on the skin.

Best regards

Markus Heise

Re: My 'new' old T9

Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2014 8:07 pm
by gbellware
If the "clap hands" method doesn't work it is a little late to use talc...just sayin'.

I just put my A2 away for the winter after having it assembled for 4 months and it was tough to get the frame out of the skin. This might sound brutal but it works and did no harm... I used a rubber mallet to break the adhesion, just a few taps on bow and stern ends, and the frame was released with no worries. I will not accept liability if you swing the mallet too hard!


Re: My 'new' old T9

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:34 pm
by ChrisO

That is a really nice skin, superb workmanship! A little tutorial on your experience making it would be nice.

Re. skins sticking to frames:
I use talcum powder on the old rubber hulls (Klepper T67 and Kette), but use 303 Protectant on Hypalon (Klepper AE II) and PVC (Nautiraid Miniraid). Do not use 303 on the old rubber hulls, it will make any tendency for stickiness worse.
I second the judicious use of a rubber mallet, works like a charm! Also useful for properly seating a recalcitrant frame members into the skin! My old rubber mallet now goes with me every time I use one of my folders.


Re: My 'new' old T9

Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:04 pm
by mariodosreis
Does anybody happen to have the original T9 assembly instructions? Been looking around the web but have not been able to locate a downloadable pdf or anything like it.


Re: My 'new' old T9

Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:57 am
by arcprof
Re sticky skin on frame problem. My Folbot G11 came with a couple of mystery hood pieces that took me a couple of years to figure out their use. Yes, they slip over the pointy end of the frame and not only protect the inside of the skin from the frame hardware but eliminate any bond. So make yourself a couple of frame condoms.
Cheers Jim