Folding Kayaks Forum

The user forum for FoldingKayaks.org
It is currently Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:37 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:32 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:17 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Chicago
I took out my old Klepper Expedition skin yesterday. The hull is cracking and delaminating and is pretty much no good. But the deck, which is red cotton canvas and is, I suppose, 20 or 25 years old, looks in pretty good shape to me. I don't think the boat was used a lot and that the failure of the hull is due to storage issues or maybe the materials used--it's the black Hypalon, not the gray. Anyway, last year I exchanged messages with Mark at Long Haul, and despite what others have said in this forum, he said that he didn't favor putting an old deck on a new hull and that the decks don't last as long as the hulls. But every time I look at that deck, I think why not? It seems a shame not to reuse it. But maybe I'm missing something, some weakness in the fabric that I don't see. So I'm curious what others have found. Do the decks fall apart before the hulls, or visa versa?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:48 pm 
forum fanatic

Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 9:47 pm
Posts: 82
Do you get a new heart or for a few dollars more go the whole shebang and opt for a heart and lung? Tough question. I've owned several folders over the years. In 4 out of 5 boats the canvas decks were in better shape than their hulls during my tenure as their owner. That said, I'd hesitate to have a new custom hull made which was to be reintegrated onto an aging deck. Would the savings made warrant completing only half a renovation? I was paddling my beloved Tyne this afternoon and I was considering the very same question. The 40-year-old blue canvas deck looks great, but the hull is extremely tired. However, because I paddle several other canoes and folding kayaks, I keep putting off skin replacement until I absolutely have to. Alas, I'm of Scottish extraction, with genetic memory of cold east coast granite on both sides. If I keep holding out I might just arrive at the point where I decide to let the boat become a fixture I hang from the ceiling, a reminder of former glories. Old kayak frames could well be converted into fantastic pot hangers and light fixtures. When feeling darker I can't help but think that an old folding kayak would make an economical, culturally interesting, and ecologically-friendly resting place for one's bones. Just some thoughts!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 8:52 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Posts: 824
Location: atlanta, georgia
Overland,

Your thoughts are the same as mine. I thought that Mark was happy to sew a new hull on a good deck...maybe things have changed. The deck on my '60s A2 was in perfect shape while the hull was beginning to show cracks. That said, I can't imagine it is THAT much of a savings to reuse the deck, but Mark would know better, and I would trust his judgement.

g

_________________
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

1990 A1 Expedition
2010 carbon Klepper Quattro
BSD sail rig, 24' mizzen + 36' main
36' jib
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 10, 2017 9:46 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:17 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Chicago
Actually, sewing the hull to the deck looks simpler to me than sewing up the deck. There's a seam at each end of the hull and then a single seam around the top to attach the deck (done inside out). After that comes the bumpers and (what looks trickier) installing the rudder bracket (sorry, I don't know the proper terms for it). The deck itself seems a little more complicated. That and the rudder bracket. I don't know how one does that.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 5:43 pm 
forum fanatic

Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 10:56 pm
Posts: 49
Location: Auckland New Zealand
In my experience the deck does outlast the hull. The cotton canvas can go 50 years but there are other issues with the deck that need attention long before the canvas rots. Most of these can be dealt with once the deck is removed from the old hull but they all take time so if you are getting it done professionally any initial cost saving can evaporate quickly.
Points to examine on your deck are:
Beading that inserts into coaming. Will start to fray and look untidy.
Grommets that fit over Tee pieces. These corrode and reinforcing stitching breaks down.
Stitching of sponson tubes.
Stitching of seams round end of boomerang piece.
State of shock cords on paddle ties.

Generally speaking I would say you need to re-sew every seam in the old deck as the old stitching will be at risk.

You can get attached to your old skin and it is nice to retain some of its original character but most decks will need some work to enable them to last the life of a new hull.
Cheers Jim

_________________
Folbot:Super, Sporty, Greenland II, Klepper:1960's AE2, 1970's AE2, 1990's AE2000


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:38 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1754
Location: Southeast Michigan
I suppose it depends on the overall condition. Mark has replaced many rubber hulls with Hypalon (he did a Klepper Master for me) but it may be that if conditions were bad enough for a Hypalon hull to deteriorate, the deck may have suffered damage as well. Of course, I'm speculating here.

_________________
Michael Edelman
FoldingKayaks.org Webmaster


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:14 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Mon Feb 15, 2016 4:17 pm
Posts: 121
Location: Chicago
Probably I should just take the deck off and send it to him.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group