Klepper T65 pelvic supports

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Karl
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Klepper T65 pelvic supports

Post by Karl »

Hello fellow folders,

I own a T65, and I am looking for the pelvic supports. The boat did not have them when I purchased it about 23 years ago used. Does anyone know where I can get some? They are for the right and left inside the cockpit. I attached some pictures. Thanks
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kayakolyte
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Re: Klepper T65 pelvic supports

Post by kayakolyte »

I have a T 65 plus some spare parts. But neither include the hip pieces. I wonder if they were an option, or just lost along the way?

I checked the Patcool.de web site. They have some T 65 parts listed for sale, but no hip pieces. You might want to contact them and ask if they can help you locate some.

You could make the pieces out of the correct thickness marine plywood. Since these are essentially flat pieces, they would be easy to duplicate. I assume they should be the same thickness and ply as the other seat parts. The aluminum parts could be fashioned by hand as long as you use a malleable type of aluminum. If you decide to try and make these parts, I can help you locate the supplies that you would need, because I have made quite a few substitute and repair parts for my boats in the past. And I have been able to locate the correct materials in most cases. Unfortunately, most of the supplies are not cheap, when you take into account the amount you have to purchase and the shipping fees.

If you are not concerned about making your boat as “original” as possible and are more concerned about comfort and a good fit, you might want to try fashioning some hip pads out of mini cell.

Good luck.
Kayakolyte


Klepper A I & II
Klepper T- 9
Klepper T-65
Klepper T-66
Klepper T-67
Klepper SL-59
Klepper Vagabund 1929
Pioneer 450WA
Hammer Wandereiner
Hart Sioux Turbillon
Gesa Moell
Chauveau Slalom
Chauveau Greenland Style Sea Kayak
Gesa Slalom 58

Karl
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Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:11 pm

Re: Klepper T65 pelvic supports

Post by Karl »

Thank you for your information. I will do some measurements and see about making some or use the foam padding. What do you use your T65 for? touring or rivers.

kayakolyte
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Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:57 pm
Location: Carbondale, Colorado

Re: Klepper T65 pelvic supports

Post by kayakolyte »

I have been collecting folding kayak styles that have been used for Whitewater in the past, before composite and plastic kayaks. I am hoping that a Whitewater paddling museum will be established someday and I can contribute these boats. So far, I have donated a Klepper T 67 and an Eskimo Topolino to the Buena Vista Colorado Historical Society Museum for their small whitewater paddling exhibit.

My T 65 looks like it has never been used. It appears almost brand new, which is amazing since it is more than 60 years old. I have it on display in my home and do not intend to paddle it, especially not in whitewater. Because I don’t want to damage it on rocks.

Your question about the pelvic supports has inspired me to consider making some of these parts for my boat.
Kayakolyte


Klepper A I & II
Klepper T- 9
Klepper T-65
Klepper T-66
Klepper T-67
Klepper SL-59
Klepper Vagabund 1929
Pioneer 450WA
Hammer Wandereiner
Hart Sioux Turbillon
Gesa Moell
Chauveau Slalom
Chauveau Greenland Style Sea Kayak
Gesa Slalom 58

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gbellware
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Re: Klepper T65 pelvic supports

Post by gbellware »

Kayakolyte,

Sounds like a worthy cause, and your collection sounds amazing, I know quite a few people who would love to see it. If we have to wait for a museum, so be it.

In the meantime I would be happy to help with the fabrication of the pieces you intend to replicate. The hardwood ply is relatively easy to shape and finish and I have done just that when I recreated some pieces for my old (now sold) A2. Don't know how much of a stickler you are going to be but what you will find is that the plywood Klepper used is not available in the U.S....but you can get close with birch ply that is commercially available. It is maddening to work with "dimensional" lumber in the U.S. because it does not measure as it is labeled and, in any case, Klepper used (uses?) metric lumber. That may be more than you are going to worry about, but happy to lend my experience if it my help.

Thanks,

g
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

Kleppers, A1 Expedition and carbon Quattro
Easy Riders, 18.6 and 17
Lots of BSD sails
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor

kayakolyte
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Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:57 pm
Location: Carbondale, Colorado

Re: Klepper T65 pelvic supports

Post by kayakolyte »

G:

I looked at the hip supports in my other Kleppers. They all seem to be made of the same 5 ply, probably white ash, 4 mm plywood as the seats. The T 66 is an outlier, having heavier 9 mm clip-in supports.

I checked the Boulter Plywood web site. They have white ash marine plywood for sale. Unfortunately, the 4mm size is only 3 ply.

Since almost all of the Klepper seats seem to be made of the same plywood and are 26 mm x 27.5 mm in size, it seems to me that one could cannibalize two seats to make the hip supports. Judging from the photos and the distance from the top of the seat to the top of the cockpit rim (28mm), there is enough plywood in a seat. I would guess that the hip supports are slightly less than 28 mm x 20 mm. This would mean that a hip support could be made from an old seat and would not have to include the finger hole area of the seat. The only other issue is the placement of rivets in the seat. There would be 4 holes in the plywood. However, it might be possible to use two of the holes for the brackets which hold the hip supports to the cockpit rim. The direction of the wood grain doesn’t seem to matter. They are horizontal in my T 67 and vertical in my Slalom 59. The only other issue that I can think of is that Aerius seats usually have a Mohagony veneer.

Any suggestions or comments regarding this potential plan would be welcome.
Kayakolyte


Klepper A I & II
Klepper T- 9
Klepper T-65
Klepper T-66
Klepper T-67
Klepper SL-59
Klepper Vagabund 1929
Pioneer 450WA
Hammer Wandereiner
Hart Sioux Turbillon
Gesa Moell
Chauveau Slalom
Chauveau Greenland Style Sea Kayak
Gesa Slalom 58

User avatar
gbellware
lord high faltbotmeister
Posts: 924
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Location: atlanta, georgia

Re: Klepper T65 pelvic supports

Post by gbellware »

Kayakolyte,

Using a seat is a brilliant solution, wish I had thought of it! I don't think there is another way to fabricate the pieces unless you found some old stock 5 ply 4mm wood, and I don't think that is possible. When I fabricated the pieces for my keel board I cheated a bit, using 5 ply 6mm wood that I sanded to 4 mm at the tongue where the keelboard slats joined the stringers. And the best stock I found is okoume, which I believe is in the mahogany family. But your solution is much cleaner.
Couple of suggestions beyond that. First, I would route vs. sand the edge(s) to keep a nice, clean line. Otherwise the edge will show a squiggly pattern from exposed plywood layers. Second, I would use "real" rivets, the way Klepper fastened most everything. These are solid aluminum fasteners that get peened in place. It is an almost lost art, but they are so much cleaner than pop rivets.
Happy to help any way you might find useful, just let me know.

Best,
g
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

Kleppers, A1 Expedition and carbon Quattro
Easy Riders, 18.6 and 17
Lots of BSD sails
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor

kayakolyte
forum fanatic
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:57 pm
Location: Carbondale, Colorado

Re: Klepper T65 pelvic supports

Post by kayakolyte »

Hi g:

Thanks for the encouragement and the suggestion to router the edges. I have solid aluminum rivets from the various repair work I have done in the past. I found a spare Klepper seat in good condition among all of my “stuff”. Now all I have to do is locate another seat that is expendable......

Fabricating the strap with grommets to hold the supports in place will be easy. So, as soon as I can find another seat, I will fabricate the supports.

I might start now by trying to fabricate decent aluminum pieces o replicate what I see in the photos.

Steve
Kayakolyte


Klepper A I & II
Klepper T- 9
Klepper T-65
Klepper T-66
Klepper T-67
Klepper SL-59
Klepper Vagabund 1929
Pioneer 450WA
Hammer Wandereiner
Hart Sioux Turbillon
Gesa Moell
Chauveau Slalom
Chauveau Greenland Style Sea Kayak
Gesa Slalom 58

User avatar
gbellware
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Posts: 924
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Location: atlanta, georgia

Re: Klepper T65 pelvic supports

Post by gbellware »

This might be too soft for the aluminum, but I would definitely go with anodized stock and this is worth a try, imo. This is 1/16 inch:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/063-Clear-Anod ... 2719701392
Best,
g
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

Kleppers, A1 Expedition and carbon Quattro
Easy Riders, 18.6 and 17
Lots of BSD sails
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor

kayakolyte
forum fanatic
Posts: 41
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 6:57 pm
Location: Carbondale, Colorado

Re: Klepper T65 pelvic supports

Post by kayakolyte »

I have 6061 Aluminum sheet of .063 in. thickness that I have been using to make some of the longeron connectors for an old Gesa Slalom 58. I found that this version is quite malleable, easy to cut and drill and is strong enough for that application. Some aluminum types crack when bent and are hard to cut and drill. The 6061 seems to work well enough. I purchased it from Online Metals. The only problem with the 6061 is that it is a little flimsy and I am not sure if it will be strong enough. It is difficult to tell from the photos, but Klepper may have used a thicker aluminum for this application. In any case, I will make the hooks from .063 sheet and see how it works out.

Steve
Kayakolyte


Klepper A I & II
Klepper T- 9
Klepper T-65
Klepper T-66
Klepper T-67
Klepper SL-59
Klepper Vagabund 1929
Pioneer 450WA
Hammer Wandereiner
Hart Sioux Turbillon
Gesa Moell
Chauveau Slalom
Chauveau Greenland Style Sea Kayak
Gesa Slalom 58

User avatar
gbellware
lord high faltbotmeister
Posts: 924
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 8:05 am
Location: atlanta, georgia

Re: Klepper T65 pelvic supports

Post by gbellware »

Steve,

The sheet goods you have in 6061 at .063 will be a little less compliant, a little stiffer, than the 5005 metal in the same thickness you can get on ebay. The tradeoff is that the "6" series aluminum does not anodize very well. But if you don't care about that then I would suggest going up to .125 (1/8) 6061. It is hard but not impossible to bend and it won't crack or fatigue unless you bend it "back and forth". If you want to try the 6061 I have some spare stock that you can play with, just let me know and I would be happy to send it along to you.

Best,
g
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

Kleppers, A1 Expedition and carbon Quattro
Easy Riders, 18.6 and 17
Lots of BSD sails
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor

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