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 Post subject: Flotation bags & MK2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:15 am 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:48 pm
Posts: 248
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Do you need flotation bags for paddling on lakes or are they for ocean kayaking? If you should have them, what fits best in the MK2?

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Frank
Long Haul Stretch Mark 2
BSD 36 HP Sport & BSD 24 HP Sport
Advanced Elements Convertible
2015 Windrider 17 white w/white & black sails


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 Post subject: Re: Flotation bags & MK2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:31 pm 
faltbootemeister
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:41 am
Posts: 221
Ultimately, it is your call based on specific situations.

Do you anticipate lots of waves crashing over your deck? I mean lots...

Do you carry a bilge pump?

It is hard to capsize a Mark II

Can you afford having less storage space (taken by the flotation bags) for food and gear on your trip?

Although, we have them we never used the flotation bags on any trip.

Your call...

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 Post subject: Re: Flotation bags & MK2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:02 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:48 pm
Posts: 248
Location: Wisconsin, USA
In wavy conditions I plan to have the Velcro TU cover on. If it is hot we can un zip (so to speak) the cover if the waves get bigger we can secure it again. I don't know how different folding kayaks are than the Advanced Elements double but when we bought the conversion deck we seldom got water inside the boat. That cover was most similar to the Expedition spray cover in that it had two holes you sat into with a raised coaming. We didn't have the skirts.

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Frank
Long Haul Stretch Mark 2
BSD 36 HP Sport & BSD 24 HP Sport
Advanced Elements Convertible
2015 Windrider 17 white w/white & black sails


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 Post subject: Re: Flotation bags & MK2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:59 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1375
Location: South Salem, NY
I might check with Mark about that. I think as a safety measure for day paddles when you're not using the space - put them in. They will displace a lot of water should you capsize. I always inflate them in my boat because I still have plenty of storage left over for my day paddles. For sailing I even have a center canoe float bag to take up even more volume in the boat that I won't have to pump out later when I capsize.

It's my understanding the the boats rating is based on the sponsons alone. But believe me, that boat holds a lot of water if you aren't filled with gear.

d

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 Post subject: Re: Flotation bags & MK2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:39 pm 
forum fanatic

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:58 pm
Posts: 26
Location: New York and Lake Tahoe
Klepper sells some that double as dry bags. Fit the LH and no down side

Alex

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Longhaul Mk 2
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 Post subject: Re: Flotation bags & MK2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:36 pm 
Site Admin

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Posts: 1680
Location: Southeast Michigan
I almost always use float bags. All it takes is one experience bailing out a swamped folder ;-) The only time I don't use them is in very shallow water.

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 Post subject: Re: Flotation bags & MK2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 5:31 pm 
faltbootemeister
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:41 am
Posts: 221
Alex wrote:
Klepper sells some that double as dry bags. Fit the LH and no down side

Alex


Hi Alex,

It is not an easy task to store gear and food/water inside a larger dual purpose dry bag/float bag. Think of loading and unloading the boat in the surf...

Besides, using smaller dry bags inside is easier, protects the gear and creates needed buoyancy when capsizing.

We are in a Long Haul section of the forum. While any boat can capsize, how many Long Haul Mark II capsized on day trips? How many day paddlers go out beyond Beaufort 5-6?

I am not suggesting not using safety devices. If Frank feels safer with the float bags, he should get them, but nobody should let fear overshadow the pure joy of a paddling/sailing trip..:)

just my humble $ 0.02

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 Post subject: Re: Flotation bags & MK2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:19 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:48 pm
Posts: 248
Location: Wisconsin, USA
The reason I asked is because last year we spent a lot of time in our Advanced Elements double. I have never been in any other kayak. I thought the AEC was very stable. Does all the air make it more stable and not need more flotation? I plan to buy a couple flotation bags just in case. I do have a 20 liter dry bag. Will that work for one?

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Long Haul Stretch Mark 2
BSD 36 HP Sport & BSD 24 HP Sport
Advanced Elements Convertible
2015 Windrider 17 white w/white & black sails


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 Post subject: Re: Flotation bags & MK2
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:14 pm 
faltbootemeister
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Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:41 am
Posts: 221
FrankP wrote:
The reason I asked is because last year we spent a lot of time in our Advanced Elements double. I have never been in any other kayak. I thought the AEC was very stable. Does all the air make it more stable and not need more flotation? I plan to buy a couple flotation bags just in case. I do have a 20 liter dry bag. Will that work for one?


Advanced Elements is, from what I read, a good boat. The only one I touched was hanging in the store. The LH MkII is a different boat. They don't behave quite the same in similar conditions. The MK II floats even with deflated sponsons, The sponsons make it more rigid and help make the skin tight by slightly changing the keel profile.

I wouldn't count on any sponson from any boat to save my life. Then again, the question is how and where you plan to paddle/sail. If the day is TOO windy/wavy and all you wanted was a day paddle, perhaps it is better to reschedule for a better day. Even on a multi-day remote trip it is better to stay put until the bad weather passes.

I heard of people who did an eskimo roll in an Aerius II/MkII, but in my experience I found it almost impossible to capsize even in heavier wind and surf. Maybe I was just lucky...

Frank, get the float bags, it is better to have them if you need them than not to have them when you need them.

Enjoy your new boat! Did it arrive?

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 Post subject: Re: Flotation bags & MK2
PostPosted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:31 pm 
faltbootemeister

Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2012 8:48 pm
Posts: 248
Location: Wisconsin, USA
I'm getting it this spring. Can't wait!

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Frank
Long Haul Stretch Mark 2
BSD 36 HP Sport & BSD 24 HP Sport
Advanced Elements Convertible
2015 Windrider 17 white w/white & black sails


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 Post subject: Re: Flotation bags & MK2
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2013 3:12 am 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1375
Location: South Salem, NY
No doubt the MKII or AII will float without the sponsons, the difference is that with the sponsons the boat will float when filled with water - and be stable.

Get the float bags Frank. Unless you are going on expedition like DoiNomazi, the float bags will fill a lot of air space that could otherwise be filled with water. It takes little effort to fill them and additional buoyancy is always welcome in case of trouble. I don't think the storage/flotation bags are such a good idea. Regular dry bags will be much easier to access and more convenient to open and close on the water. However, I do keep my snorkel, mask, and fins in my inflatable paddle float. Two of these could make an emergency outrigger with the MKll; one on each side of the paddle and the paddle held across the coaming with the tie down straps.

d

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 Post subject: Re: Flotation bags & MK2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 10:22 am 
forum fanatic

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:58 pm
Posts: 26
Location: New York and Lake Tahoe
Flotation and Dry bags
Does one need floatation bags on a LHM2? Maybe not. Their purpose is not so much to keep you afloat as to avoid letting that much water in. I’ve had inadvertent jibs with the kayak sailor 1.6 with no mishaps in 3 foot waves. With larger sail rigs like the one Dlee uses it would be a different matter. But is probably not, good enough? By that logic you probably don’t need a PFD either?
On a camping trip I find there is never enough room. Stuffing things you don’t need on the water (sleeping bags) into the very bow or stern is not easy nor is fishing them out again. I use the large Klepper combination flotation dry bags. When out for a day sail they are filled with air. When on a camping trip they are filled with smaller bags but iI find it easer to pack up the bow and stern using them as a kind of funnel. If there is stuff I need during the trip, I leave them open. it does not really matter if the area is filled with air or stuff. That is what I meant by no down side. You will still want smaller dry bags of course.
Alex

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Longhaul Mk 2
Innova Swing 2
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 Post subject: Re: Flotation bags & MK2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 12:19 pm 
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle

Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 10:05 pm
Posts: 1375
Location: South Salem, NY
Alex,

Did you get some sailing in on Lake Tahoe last summer?

You guys up for 'Kayaksailing' the Norwalk Islands this spring? I ordered my rig a few weeks after you showed me your setup. I love it. Did some very high wind sailing with it on Lake Champlain last August. Great sail. I've also used it on my Ute and the T9. The T9 is the only boat that I've capsized with the Kayaksailor - and that was on a jibe, so I kinda deserved it. Such foolishness...

d

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 Post subject: Re: Flotation bags & MK2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:58 pm 
forum fanatic

Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:58 pm
Posts: 26
Location: New York and Lake Tahoe
Hi D
Yes and Yes
Tahoe is great and Norwalk is where I did the jib with waves. Be happy to do it again
Did you extend the lea boards on your ks? Still suck at beating with the ks. I think the problem is the boards.
Alex

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 Post subject: Re: Flotation bags & MK2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:48 pm 
lord high faltbotmeister

Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2005 3:40 pm
Posts: 995
Location: isles of scilly UK
If you think you need longer lee boards make some or one out of ply, but make sure it is thick enough. Last year i made one out of two pieces of 3/16 ply blued to-gether and it vibrated from side to side, you could call it "fluttering", when the weather outside warms up i will increase the thickness to 3/4 inch and see if this improves it. Here is a photo alongside the Kayaksailor leeboard. The length was the length of ply i had. The holes are so i can pull it up or down.


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