Birgit Fisher nad Nautiraid racing K1

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wayfarer

Birgit Fisher nad Nautiraid racing K1

Post by wayfarer »

Birgit Fischer (German legend of kayak sport) and Nautiraid have developed a racing K1 folder. I've gathered some related pictures and links in my fit2paddle blog:

http://race.fit2paddle.com/index.html

After watching the movie I would say that they need a little bit more practice in assembling that skiny boat.

The idea of racing folding kayaks is not new. Solo and double folding kayaks raced 10K distance in the 1936 Olympic Games in Berlin. I wonder what folding kayaks were used at that time for racing.

Image
Last edited by wayfarer on Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Yostwerks

Post by Yostwerks »

Marek,

I recall reading a while back that Birgit's K-1 folder was built so that she would have a
training boat while on an extended trip to the US. The rules used to "not" allow a
concave cross section shape, as is the case of a skin boat in the water. Then again,
my knowledge of the rules dates back 30 years. It wouldn't matter either way, as a
folding K-1 would be no match for today's highy specialized sprint K-1's.

I was told, but haven't verified, that the folding kayak class in the Berlin 1936 Olympics
was mostly commercial kayaks of the day. There is a Retro-Olympics competition in
Germany that includes folding kayaks. Perhaps Birgit's boat can be used there ?

Is it cold enough for you ? When I left Frazier after X/C skiing yesterday it was 20F, but
when I arrived home 2+ hrs later, it was -10F. That's the first time I've experienced
such a temperature drop while "descending" 4000ft into Elizabeth on the eastern
prairie. I understand why it happened, but it's still a unique experience. I need to go
back to the mountains to get warm !

Regards,

Tom

nohoval_turrets

Post by nohoval_turrets »

That's pretty cool, and €1740 seems a very reasonable price. I've never considered a K-1 before, but suddenly I find I need one. Must... resist...

Nohoval

Alm

Post by Alm »

I have already forgotten how racing kayaks feel. Tried this long time ago. The difference between sitting on the floor and using a seat (as it is supposed to be) is tremendous. Meaning, that sitting on the floor, I could keep some balance on flat water :-) , enough not to capsize when making those movements with hands that were supposed to be paddling strokes. Instant acceleration, loong inertial gliding after each stroke, and weight that you don't feel at all, neither in water nor on the shoulder. You don't feel anything but resistance of water through the paddle, - the boat feels one and inseparable with your body.

Anne

Racing kayaks in 1936

Post by Anne »

I don't know what folding kayaks were used in 1936, but they were not as long and skinny as Birgit Fischer's Nauiraid. Different rules existed for folding (F) and rigid kayaks (K) at the Olympics:

K 1 : 520cm 51cm
F 1 : 450cm 65cm

K 2 : 650cm 55cm
F 2 : 550cm 75cm

(max. length and min. beam)

This explains why the folding kayaks were slower than the regular kayaks on the 10,000m course.

Alm

Re: Racing kayaks in 1936

Post by Alm »

Anne wrote:I don't know what folding kayaks were used in 1936, but they were not as long and skinny as Birgit Fischer's Nauiraid. Different rules existed for folding (F) and rigid kayaks (K) at the Olympics:

K 1 : 520cm 51cm
F 1 : 450cm 65cm

K 2 : 650cm 55cm
F 2 : 550cm 75cm

(max. length and min. beam)

This explains why the folding kayaks were slower than the regular kayaks on the 10,000m course.
65 cm is very, very wide, indeed. This is wider than Feathercraft Kahuna or FC K1 (sitting in them doesn't feel like in a racing kayak - rather like in a wide high-volume hardshell touring kayak, with lots of stability). Birgit's 39 cm folder is a different stuff. Every single inch of added or reduced width makes a big difference, - without exaggeration.

wayfarer

folding kayaks in the 1936 Olympics

Post by wayfarer »

... short and fat folding kayaks, no wing paddles, 10 km in 50 minutes. It's about 7.5 mph. In my Sisson Nucleus I would be 2 km behind these guys ...
http://race.fit2paddle.com/C1159474119/ ... index.html

There are several modern folding kayaks that are narrower and potentially faster than the 1936 folders, e.g.,
- Bergans ALLY 560 (18'4"x23", 49lb)
- Feathercraft Katsalano (17'9"x22", 45lb)
- Feathercraft Jet Stream (19'3"x20", 45lb)

I would love to see more folding kayaks in my virtual races:
http://users.frii.com/uliasz/wayfarer/virtual_race.htm

Image

nohoval_turrets

Post by nohoval_turrets »

... short and fat folding kayaks, no wing paddles, 10 km in 50 minutes. It's about 7.5 mph. In my Sisson Nucleus I would be 2 km behind these guys ...
10km/50 mins = 12kmph = 6.48kn... for 50 mins... I'm a wimp!
There are several modern folding kayaks that are narrower and potentially faster than the 1936 folders, e.g.,
- Bergans ALLY 560 (18'4"x23", 49lb)
- Feathercraft Katsalano (17'9"x22", 45lb)
- Feathercraft Jet Stream (19'3"x20", 45lb)
Not my Khatsalano, at least not with me in it!

Nohoval

mje
Site Admin
Posts: 1904
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 12:34 pm
Location: Southeast Michigan

Post by mje »

That video of the kayak assembly (http://www.kanufisch.com/index.php?page=firma&sub=08) is pretty interesting; I note that an increasing number of boats have been using that method of assembly, including Pouch and Folbot, since Nautiraid brought it back with the Greenland some years ago.

Watching her paddle is instructive, too; a lot of nocie paddlers (and some not-so-novice paddlers) would do well to note how she uses torso rotation to get power..

nohoval_turrets

Post by nohoval_turrets »

I note that an increasing number of boats have been using that method of assembly, including Pouch and Folbot, since Nautiraid brought it back with the Greenland some years ago.
What method of assembly is that? You mean full frame assembly outside the skin + tensioning system?

Nautiraid's website is pretty annoying. There's very little inforation there other than a pictures and dimensions of the various models, and no mention of this new K-1. If all the manufacturers posted assembly instructions it would be much easier to compare models.

Nohoval

Yostwerks

Post by Yostwerks »

I would love to see more folding kayaks in my virtual races:



I assure you.....you will. Who knows, you might even acknowledge my existance. :)
I even have a new GPS mount for the deck in preparation.

http://yostwerks.com/SGPaddle4.html - This has a relatively short waterline to LOA so
speed won't be the same as the one below that I'm about to build. Of course, my old
body is my main limitation. It's been 30 years since I raced in the Nationals.

http://yostwerks.com/Nikumi19A.html - "Nikumi 19" Baidarka. 18ft LOA with 17ft waterline.

Tom

wayfarer

Post by wayfarer »

If all the manufacturers posted assembly instructions it would be much easier to compare models.

Nohoval
I have a few pictures illustrating assembly of the Bergans Ally 560 kayak:
http://users.frii.com/uliasz/wayfarer/s ... ally033105

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chrstjrn
Brotherhood of the Golden Paddle
Posts: 1718
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:47 pm
Location: Arlington, VA (i.e. Wash DC)

Post by chrstjrn »

mje wrote:That video of the kayak assembly (http://www.kanufisch.com/index.php?page=firma&sub=08) ...
Watching her paddle is instructive, too; a lot of nocie paddlers (and some not-so-novice paddlers) would do well to note how she uses torso rotation to get power..
I'm sorry... where is this video?
Chris T.
~'91 Klepper A2 w/ BSD schooner rig.
'64 Klepper Passat/Tradewind and T12 restoration projects.
Non-folding: Early '90s Old Town Canoe.
Previously owned '04 Pakboat Puffin II and '05 Swift (prototype), as well as an '84 Hobie 16.

wayfarer

Post by wayfarer »

chrstjrn wrote:I'm sorry... where is this video?
There is a link to the video in my blog entry:
http://race.fit2paddle.com/C1159474119/ ... index.html

Yostwerks

Post by Yostwerks »

I asked about the 1936 Olympic competition at the Faltboot.de forum and received the following information. A translation through Google ( language tools) will help, but if someone on the forum with good German language slills would translate, that would be much better.

Regards,

Tom


http://www.retrolympics.de/pages/kanu.htm - Link to 1936 F-2 winning Klepper. Here you find a picture of the winning F-2; this page says there were only 13 competitors in both (f1 and f2) competitions:


Here are the results:


Einer-Faltboot, 10 000 m
1. Gregor Hradetzky, Öst 50:01.2
2. Henry Eberhardt, Fra 50:04.2
3. Xaver Hörmann, D 50:06.5

Zweier-Faltboot, 10 000 m
1. Schweden 45:48.9 mit Sven Johansson, Erik Blandström
2. Deutschland 45:49.2 mit Wilhelm Horn, Erich Hanisch
3. Niederlande 46:12.4 mit Pieter Wijdekop, Cornelis Wijdekop


On the Klepper-homepage they say klepper boats won the games:

http://www.klepper.de/museum/indexde.htm


and there are still competitions with folding kayaks:

[www.retrolympics.de] - If this doesn't load, look at the Faltboot.de Link at the bottom of this page .

Below is a description, in German, of the 1936 competitions .... ( Google "Translation tool" will provide a minimal translation.)

Hallo Tom,

sorry, ich schreibe in Deutsch, weil mein Englisch wesentlich schlechter als mein Deutsch ist und ich mich in dieser Sprache noch halbwegs ausdrücken kann .
Also, was die Regatta-Einer-Faltboote F1 angeht, so starteten bei der Olympiade 1936 alle Teilnehmer auf speziellen Regatta-Faltbooten der Firma Klepper, wobei die wenigsten mit der Zerlegbarkeit der Boote etwas anfangen konnten, bzw. sogar nicht wußen, dass man die Boote zerlegen konnte. Die fuhren halt Kajak-Rennen. Die ganze Geschichte mit der Faltbootklasse bei Olympia war ja sowieso mehr so eine deutsche Angelegenheit, von der sich die damaligen Machthaber einen Vorteil im Medaillenspiegel erhofften. Hat ja aber dann nicht so ganz geklappt. Aber ich schweife ab. Bei den Booten handelte es sich um handelsübliche Regatta-Faltboote der Zeit, die man auch sonst käuflich erwerben konnte. Auch andere Werften boten damals ebenfalls spezielle Regatta-Faltboote an und warben mit dem Zusatz "Olympia-Einer". Die Grundmaße dieser Boote mußten den Maßvorschriften des DKV für Regattafaltboote enstsprechen: Länge 4,50m, Breite 0,65m. (Und damit erklären sich auch die "klassischen" Maße für Einerfaltboote. Es sind schlicht die Verbandsvorgaben für Faltbootregatten. D.h. im Prinzip waren damit auch "normale" Tourenboote in den entsprechenden Maßen regattafähig.)
Markus Heise [www.heise-faltboote.de] besitzt noch solch ein Klepper F1 Regattaboot und kann dir sich mehr über das Boot und das drumherum erzählen.
Über die F2 haben sicher andere, wie Emil E., mehr zu berichten.

Below is a Faltboot.de forum discussion of this subject from Sept 2000.

http://www.faltboot.de/forum/read.php?1,152,152

Below is the entire Faltboot.de forum thread that I initiated.

http://www.faltboot.de/forum/read.php?1,86501

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