Pouch+motor vs Klepper+motor?

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tlager
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Pouch+motor vs Klepper+motor?

Post by tlager »

Hi all,

I'm in the market for a foldable K2 with a good off-the-shelf motor option. If you had a choice (and disregarding costs), which one of the following two options would you choose to buy, and why?

1. A Pouch RZ96 with the Torqeedo 403AC. See

https://poucherfaltboot.de/neuboote/23/ ... bruar-2022
https://poucherfaltboot.de/zubehoer/ele ... mber=247.3

2. A Klepper Aerius II with their own motor. See

https://kleppershop.de/faltboote/aerius ... lassic-545
https://kleppershop.de/faltboote/elektr ... variante-1

One advantage that I see with the Pouch option is that the Torqeedo motor probably is the most reliable one, with easy access to spare parts etc.

One advantage that I see with the Klepper combo is that you can probably use the motor rig as a rudder even when the motor isn't running, perhaps even when sailing? Unfortunately, I haven't seen any info on the Web about their motor, user stories etc. Pointers would be most welcome!

I realize that it's likely possible to attach the Torqeedo motor to the Klepper as well, but I haven't seen any off-the-shelf solution for it.

I would appreciate your thoughts on this, and if you know of any other options, please let me know.

(And please let me know if I should have posted this under a different category.)

Best regards,
Torbjörn Lager

john allsop
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Re: Pouch+motor vs Klepper+motor?

Post by john allsop »

I doubt if anyone can give you the info you need. There have been many posts on how the Torqeedo performs and all were excellent. In contrast i have never seen a user report on the klepper motor set up. Although i have two Klepper Aerius 2s i would be inclined to go with the Torqeedo and Pouch. Remember Klepper no longer make kayaks but they are made for them to Klepper specifications.

tlager
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Re: Pouch+motor vs Klepper+motor?

Post by tlager »

Hi John, and thanks for your input. I don't expect any detailed input, so even your inclination is appreciated. I share your scepticism towards the klepper motor, and the lack of user reports is worrying.
Remember Klepper no longer make kayaks but they are made for them to Klepper specifications.
That's what I've read too, but on page 3 of their brochure at https://kleppershop.de/media/pdf/95/da/ ... n-2021.pdf they write that
KLEPPER folding kayaks are handmade with passion and attention to detail in Rosenheim, Germany. KLEPPER kayaks are not produced in bulk, we custom make each and every kayak as we have been doing since 1907.
So either they have started to build their kayaks in Rosenheim again, or they don't stick to the truth. I've actually written to them asking about this, but have received no answer. I'm starting to think that they might be getting out of business again... Also, I was talking to a Swedish reseller (https://www.avanzakayak.com/Klepper.htm) and he too has problems getting in touch with them - and that might be yet another clue.
There have been many posts on how the Torqeedo performs and all were excellent.
Yes, I've seen such reports. However, my impression is that the Torqeedo Ultralight 403 (which is what Pouch supplies with their kayaks) is perhaps the least reliable of the models, as well as a bit noisy, noisier than their 3hp Ultralight 1103 model for example (apparently because the 403, contrary to the 1103, isn't a "direct-drive" motor). In the Torqeedo Ultralight Facebook group (https://www.facebook.com/groups/270509063141395) I've seen people are complaining about things like that.

I started to think about another Klepper-based option, namely to attach the brand new Travel 603 (https://www.torqeedo.com/en/products/ou ... 53-00.html) to the side of the kayak by means of the Klepper wooden motor bracket. I can see advantages with this, such as the silent direct-drive, a cheaper price, and the ability to use the standard rudder when sailing for example. With 2hp, it's also more powerful (perhaps TOO powerful?). Also, it may be a bit too heavy (15.5 kg). Perhaps one would have to use an outrigger, as in the video clip at https://youtu.be/UWL0l9zsplY.

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gbellware
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Re: Pouch+motor vs Klepper+motor?

Post by gbellware »

I would steer clear of the Klepper motor, you really do want to be sure you have service for this investment and I just don't think I would would count on Klepper. The Torqeedo is a really nice motor. It is expensive but you get what you pay for. Mounting is difficult on a folder...I fabricated an aluminum plate that attaches to the transom of either the A1 or A2, and it works just fine. You do not, imo, want to rely on the motor for steering, and leaving the motor in the water is a real drag if you are just paddling or sailing, so you need an option that allows independent raising/lowering of the motor and rudder. Just my $.02.
Best,
g
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

Kleppers, A1 Expedition and carbon Quattro
Easy Riders, 18.6 and 17
Lots of BSD sails
Torqeedo outboard
1938 Sachs-Fichtel seitenbordmotor

tlager
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Re: Pouch+motor vs Klepper+motor?

Post by tlager »

Yes, I have now decided, with the help of the responses I've got here, that the Klepper motor isn't a viable option. It leaves me with a Pouch with the Torqeedo 403, or a Klepper (if it's still possible to buy one - see my previous post) with a (possibly) custom solution for a Torqeedo motor.

Plowing through old posts on this forum, I think I've found a description of your project in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7415 . Really nice job! Could I do something like that? No, I live in an apartment (very close to the see, fortunately), and don't have the required tools nor the skills. Also, it seems like the 403 has a new mount, different from the one you use. (The old ball mount is still available though...)

So a Pouch+Torqeedo seems to be the best combo so far for me. I'm aware of the disadvantages (no way to operate the motor and rudder independently, therefore no sailing or paddling when the motor is in the water), but I may have to live with them. Hopefully I can still paddle with the motor lifted, and I suppose steering without rudder is possible, at least when we are two in the kayak?

Thanks to both of you!

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EricB
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Re: Pouch+motor vs Klepper+motor?

Post by EricB »

FYI

Klepper's new AE I/II E-Kayak Motor packages will run all-day when you purchase their Electric Motor, Li-Ion battery, 2-Solar Panels (Bow/Stern), and Control unit with their battery housing. I have been told by Klepper, Germany that they will soon be opening a company store in the USA. That configuration is on my wish list.

I have attached page 34 from the Klepper Catalog.

Hope that helps.

Life is good, stay safe and healthy,
Eric B.
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Klepper Aerius II Expedition 520
Klepper S2/S4 Sails, Jib Furler
traveler
Two person spray cover
Outriggers
Navigation: Compass, GPS/fish finder, NAV lights
Dog sling for my four legged sailing buddies

tlager
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Re: Pouch+motor vs Klepper+motor?

Post by tlager »

Hi Eric, and thanks for your input. Yes, I've seen their motor, and the idea looks good as it seems to allow one to use the motor and rudder independently (for paddling at least and perhaps even for sailing?). However, as other people have remarked, litte is known about it (i.e. no user stories). The version with Li-Ion battery doesn't seem to be available any longer (see https://kleppershop.de/faltboote/elektro-motoren/). Also, nothing is said about the availability of spare parts or service, and that's worrying. The Torqeedo motor seems like a MUCH better choice in this regard, although it does lack some of the advantages of the Klepper motor.

My impression, having sent them a number of mail messages without receiving any response, is that they may be in trouble. I'm not sure I dare to order a kayak from them. I'm glad to hear that they are expanding into the US, so maybe I should stop worrying? On the other hand, while Pouch are participating in the Boot & Fun exhibition in Berlin (which starts tomorrow - see https://www.boot-berlin.de/en/), Klepper is not.

I would have liked to get a Klepper, but I'm still hesitant. And if I finally decide on a Klepper, I might get a Minn-Kota for it instead of a Klepper motor, to be attached on the side, perhaps with an outrigger.

Thanks again for your input - it's much appreciated!

tlager
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Re: Pouch+motor vs Klepper+motor?

Post by tlager »

This might be another motor alternative? I like its simplicity…

https://www.temofrance.com/en_GB/

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