Klepper, BSD. Kayaksailor - Visual sail comparison

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DLee
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Re: Klepper, BSD. Kayaksailor - Visual sail comparison

Post by DLee »

have your son do the hiking
working on this Chris. Set it all up and dead calm days ensued. Bummer.

But more experience was garnered by the shade tree kayaker...

The Klepper S2 rig fits the Balogh mast pretty nicely using only three sections. It'll work with all four sections but the gaff rig doesn't want to hang right. The gaff 'collar' is a tight fit, but once in place works fine.
Image

Rigging to sail with my son I initially set up the S2 rig and the BSD outriggers because the BSD mast doesn't fit in the Klepper mast partner. The Long Haul BSD outrigger/control board wasn't set up real well for the S2 sail, no jib cleats, and I couldn't use the jib loop system, so I mounted my other control board behind the BSD board... too many boards. Was considering dropping the second control board for the Klepper leeboard crossbar (to manage the jib sheets) when I stepped back and looked at all those lines. It was too much for my uninitiated son to be thrown into. I went to the hardware store, bought a 10 inch curved file and opened up the Klepper mast hole to fit the BSD mast. Took about twenty minutes of filing and fitting, much simpler than I thought it would be.

Now the BSD fits in the Klepper AEII nicely. I still need to add a couple hooks to the coaming for the main sheet 'Y harness,' but we are basically ready to go. Now all we need is time and wind. Bottom line is that this was a very easy modification.

Although I've only played the scenario out in the yard... my neighbors think I'm nuts... rigging and striking the 'entire' BSD rig on the AEII should be very doable out on the water.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

john allsop
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Re: Klepper, BSD. Kayaksailor - Visual sail comparison

Post by john allsop »

Dennis, it looks like you have just about "cracked it". Now a boat for each set of sails and you can have the "Dennis Sailing event" where various sails are sailed against each other up and down the lake. Has anyone yet come around to tell you "You need water" when "sailing around your garden", it happened on my drive on numerous occasions. Who needs water it,s fun without getting wet. But you have built up a great deal of knowledge and interest in all these sails and all members of the forum should be gratefull.

DLee
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Re: Klepper, BSD. Kayaksailor - Visual sail comparison

Post by DLee »

Thanks John. What I really need is a neighbor like you so we can go out and play together!

Some of my neighbors comment, "Shouldn't you be out on the lake?" Most of them look away, shake their heads, and say to my wife, "oh you poor dear..."

So here's a math problem. Someone back me up on this...

In order to improve the number accuracy to the visual comparisons at the beginning of this thread I measured the small Klepper S1 mainsail (as it appears to be a simple right triangle) to help determine the area of the Klepper S2 jib. All sizes beyond this are based on the 'round' numbers we get from the manufacturers.

The S1 sail measures 48" foot X 68.5" luff. Doing the math I come up with 11.4 sq. ft. or 1 sq. meter. - smaller than the Kayaksailor 1.6 w/o jib.

This would mean that the Klepper jib is about 17.6 sq. ft. or 1.63 sq. m. - the same size as the Kayaksailor.

This would make the S2 Main sail approximately 37.4 sq. ft. or 3.47 sq. m, slightly larger than the BSD 36HP. I didn't expect that.

If this info looks correct I'll add it to the first post in this thread. Let me know.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

john allsop
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Re: Klepper, BSD. Kayaksailor - Visual sail comparison

Post by john allsop »

Dennis, just had a quick look at Klepper add,s they say the S1 main and jib are approximatly 2.5m sq. The S4 which is probably the same as the S2, main and jib are aproximatly 5m sq. I will have to look further to see if they give areas of each sail. In Complete Folding Kayaker by Ralp Diaz he says the Klepper S4 main is 32 sq ft and the jib is 16 sq ft.

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chrstjrn
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Re: Klepper, BSD. Kayaksailor - Visual sail comparison

Post by chrstjrn »

DLee wrote:Most of them look away, shake their heads, and say to my wife, "oh you poor dear..."
To which your wife should retort "it's cheaper than a mistress! "

I always understood that the S4 was larger than the S2 (?).
Chris T.
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john allsop
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Re: Klepper, BSD. Kayaksailor - Visual sail comparison

Post by john allsop »

The S4 might be larger than the S2.. I have the S2 and the S3 and if i remember correctly by laying the sails on top of each other they were just about the same size.

DLee
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Re: Klepper, BSD. Kayaksailor - Visual sail comparison

Post by DLee »

Refresh my memory gentlemen. The S4 came first correct? and the S2 is the current model? The S1 is the smaller main sail. What is the S3? I don't believe I've heard of that one John.

d
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

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gbellware
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Re: Klepper, BSD. Kayaksailor - Visual sail comparison

Post by gbellware »

Speaking strictly from experience, the S1 and S2 are both upwind sail rigs; the S1 is about half the sail area of the S2 and it is primarily used on the Klepper singles; the S2 is the same as the S4, Klepper just renamed it sometime over the last 20 years or so; I have never heard of S3 but I am always willing to learn more.

Best,
g
"There is nothing--absolutely nothing--half so much worth doing as simply messing around in boats"

Kleppers, A1 Expedition and carbon Quattro
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john allsop
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Re: Klepper, BSD. Kayaksailor - Visual sail comparison

Post by john allsop »

The S4 was first the the S2/S3 next and i think they are all the same sail as far as sail area. It is possible that klepper used the S3 designation in Europe. The S1 main has a much smaller area than the S2 main, the jibs they used are the same. I hope the Klepper adds can be seen , the program wouldn,t let me have larger sizes so i hope these can are clear enough. From the 2011 catalog.
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DLee
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Re: Klepper, BSD. Kayaksailor - Visual sail comparison

Post by DLee »

Thanks for that John. Weird that they mention the S3 in the title but not the text.

So using this as a guide or confirmation... I'm going to assume that my measurements and calculations are either correct or 'close enough.' I'll update the data in the first posting.

d

PS - still trying to get out with the AEII and BSD. We've had beautiful days here in NY of clear skies and little wind. Great for everything but sailing and the plants. Took out the MK1 and KS the other day in light breezes. Very fun and quite relaxing. No sponsons or outriggers necessary.
Klepper Aerius II
Klepper T9
Long Haul MK1 Expedition 'light'
Klepper S4 sail rig
Kayaksailor 1.6 +genoa
BSD 36HP

wcohen412
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Re: Klepper, BSD. Kayaksailor - Visual sail comparison

Post by wcohen412 »

Reviving an old thread….so which of these rigs worked out best on the water, now that you have this awesome collection?

JohnSand
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Re: Klepper, BSD. Kayaksailor - Visual sail comparison

Post by JohnSand »

I'm glad you revived this thread, I don't think I've read it before. I can add some other rigs to the mix. I have sailed three double paddle boats: Tom Hill Ultralight Canoe, 15'x28" 40#, Folbot Rigid Super, 17'x37" 80#, and Folbot Yukon 13'x30" 42#. The canoe is the lightest, narrowest and most v bottomed, very unstable, the Super is a battleship, I could stand in it. I also have several rigs: BSD Classic Canoe 36, a very old cotton Old Town 40sqft lateen, a Sailboatstogo darcon lateen 55sqft, and just acquired a Pionier 520z gunter ketch rig, also cotton. I have never used outriggers and floats. The canoe is thrilling in anything over a light breeze, but requires careful attention. The Old Town lateen is easier than the BSD because of it's lower profile. The Super sails well with either the BSD or Sailboatstogo, it can easily take the bigger sail. In the Yukon I have only tried the BSD rig with Folbot rudder and Super leeboards. Fun but a little tricky, as the tracking of the large leeboards lessens the effect of the rudder. Sail trim is essential to steer, but after an hour of practice I felt comfortable. The Yukon also feels a little cluttered with the sailing gear in the single cockpit. I sailed several other boats for years before trying a canoe or kayak, so I brought some experience with me.

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